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tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
1/21/22 8:44 p.m.

See my Bolt thread. It's unrealistic to expect 20% degradation within a few years. I had literally zero in two years. I have a new battery pack under that recall. The fire risk was very small, some eight cars in eighty thousand, anyway. All new batteries were free and with no fire issues. If you're interested in dollar per mile, it's the win. Other EVs are also great if you don't like the seats. Hyundai Kia is doing very well with theirs as well. 

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
1/24/22 11:55 p.m.

How about a confession?  In all my years of driving and owning lots of different performance cars, I have driven zero Honda Civic Si's.... not one, ever.  Crazy?  Probably.

I just finished reading all about GRMs 2019 Civic Si.  It sounds like a fun car to drive that can handle road trips and gets decent mileage.  I think on this commute due to low speeds it'd pull down a full 38mpg or so.  I also think it's big enough to be comfortable. I've looked at a few and they are much larger in person than you'd think but not overly huge. 

I guess I need to go drive one and see what it's all about.  A Civic sport might even be more comfortable.  My neighbor has one.  I guess I need to spend some time talking cars with him instead of gardening and kids. 

 

BAMF
BAMF HalfDork
1/25/22 11:11 a.m.
tuna55 said:

I'm sorry but the answer is Bolt. A Tesla 3, Kona or Niro if you don't like the Bolt. I only charge at home, and though my commute is much shorter than yours (80 miles round trip), it can easily make that happen. Do the math on $/mile before proceeding. You will be shocked.

To add to this, the Bolt has 200hp and 266lb-ft of torque. The official 0-60 time is 6.5 seconds (on eco tires!), which puts it in rather fun company.

Although hefty around 3,600lb, the 56/44 weight distribution is fairly good for a front wheel drive car. The majority of the weight is positioned very low in the car, which should  yields a low center of gravity.

I think with better tires and some suspension tweaks the Bolt would offer comparable fun to something like a GTI or Veloster. 

There are deals to be had during the recall, and all of them ever made are getting new batteries.

Mr. Peabody
Mr. Peabody MegaDork
1/26/22 11:05 a.m.
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

How about a confession?  In all my years of driving and owning lots of different performance cars, I have driven zero Honda Civic Si's.... not one, ever.  Crazy?  Probably.

The kid I work with is trying to convince me to buy his Si. But the last Civic I drove, the previous gen, was such a horrible appliance I can't even consider it.

Erich
Erich UberDork
1/26/22 11:58 a.m.

The original brief asked "can an EV make 150 mile trip day after day without problems?" 

I'd say the answer depends totally on climate. If you're in the upper midwest, and it snows a bunch and the temps regularly drop below zero, then maybe not. Heck, probably not.

But you said you're in Texas, and that's an ideal place for an EV. Running the heater takes way more electricity than running the A/C. I don't think you'd have any problems running 150+ miles a day, so long as you have a level 2 charge station at home to plug into. It's almost the ideal use case for a Bolt. 

My only hesitation is the seats - they didn't fit me well on some of the Bolts I tried. I've heard good things about the newer ones though. 

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
1/26/22 12:14 p.m.

I'm in TX now, but moving to MS.  The climate is similar though. 

Erich
Erich UberDork
1/26/22 5:27 p.m.

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

I have a calculator I worked on to compare total cost of ownership between two vehicle, if you want, I can give you a pretty accurate comparison between two cars for your state.

For example, if you bought this Civic and commuted 30k miles a year in Mississippi I'd expect you to spend about $7000 a year total, all in. If you bought this Bolt I would expect you to spend a little less than $5500 a year, all in. That includes fuel/electricity prices, all taxes, expected maintenance, insurance, registration, and depreciation over 3 years.

That all assumes gas and electricity prices stay stable over the next 3 years. A car with worse gas mileage would cost substantially more - 25 mpg average costs you an additional $1000/year over the Civic. 

APEowner
APEowner SuperDork
1/26/22 6:31 p.m.

I commuted about 50k a year for close to 20 years.  In that time my vehicles got larger and more comfortable.  I started with a Subaru GL (hated it) and went through a string of Panther platforms from each of Ford Motor Company's divisions including a Lincoln Town Car and the last 5 years drove an F-250.  The longer I did it the less I cared about fuel economy.  As long as I could get over 20 MPG I didn't really care. It was more important that I was comfortable, that the vehicle could do what I wanted it to do.

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
1/26/22 8:00 p.m.
Erich said:

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

I have a calculator I worked on to compare total cost of ownership between two vehicle, if you want, I can give you a pretty accurate comparison between two cars for your state.

For example, if you bought this Civic and commuted 30k miles a year in Mississippi I'd expect you to spend about $7000 a year total, all in. If you bought this Bolt I would expect you to spend a little less than $5500 a year, all in. That includes fuel/electricity prices, all taxes, expected maintenance, insurance, registration, and depreciation over 3 years.

That all assumes gas and electricity prices stay stable over the next 3 years. A car with worse gas mileage would cost substantially more - 25 mpg average costs you an additional $1000/year over the Civic. 

I love calculators like this.  I have kept a spreadsheet for years that shows all sorts of things including our net worth each month.  It's a great way to see if I'm on track to retire.  I should get to decide how much I like working when I'm 60 or I can retire at this rate.  I'd love to see your spreadsheet.  I made a super quick one the other day, and I was coming within reason of your numbers.  I also did the relative costs for driving my truck which I already own and getting 24 mpg.  The Civic should get closer to 38+ and well the Bolt gets way better like 120+ equivalent at today's costs.  Sadly, I don't think fuel costs will stay very constant.  I see a lot of bad things happening in that industry domestically that might change in a few years, but for now it doesn't look good.  I'm going to drive a Civic this weekend even though I probably will not buy one until June, but I could if it looks like a decent deal.

 

tuna55
tuna55 MegaDork
1/26/22 8:35 p.m.

Something new to consider, while gasoline and electricity costs can both rise, generally speaking it takes quite a bit of work for a power company to raise electric rates, and it generally happens annually if that often. When I first did the math for my commute, gas was over a dollar cheaper than it is now here.

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
1/27/22 8:22 a.m.

In reply to tuna55 :

I work in energy and have for a long time.  It's also why I am moving,  your thoughts are pretty solid.  All energy rates are variable but electricity tends to be more stable unless you look at things like winter storm URI last year.  Fuel prices tend to be impacted by political decisions more than electricity though.  The US has the tech and skill for cheaper fuel, but political and environmental concerns are opposed.  

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
1/30/22 9:43 p.m.

We went and test drove a Civic Si this weekend. It was a 2019 with 7,500 miles in white. The family loved the car.  Wife and kiddo said it was far roomier in the back than they imagined.  It's honestly a really cool sporty car that can pull down hood mpg.  I don't know of many cars that do that.  It was also fun to drive, has all the amenities, and is quieter on the highway than I had imagined.  The only potential issue are the side bolsters in the seat.  The leg support was almost perfect probably as good or slightly better than my truck which I can drive hundreds of miles no problem.  The wife wants the Civic for fuel saving trips back to TX easier parking in New Orleans and other things.  Kiddo liked it too.  It might be ready for her in 8 years when she is ready to drive.  
 

Once we close on the next house, I will be looking at them harder and likely getting one.  Since we have to sell and buy another home, I'm not purchasing one now.

dxman92
dxman92 Dork
1/31/22 12:10 a.m.

The Civic Sport is a nice looking hatch these days that you can still get with a manual trans.

APEowner
APEowner SuperDork
1/31/22 9:50 a.m.
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

We went and test drove a Civic Si this weekend. It was a 2019 with 7,500 miles in white. The family loved the car.  Wife and kiddo said it was far roomier in the back than they imagined.  It's honestly a really cool sporty car that can pull down hood mpg.  I don't know of many cars that do that.  It was also fun to drive, has all the amenities, and is quieter on the highway than I had imagined.  The only potential issue are the side bolsters in the seat.  The leg support was almost perfect probably as good or slightly better than my truck which I can drive hundreds of miles no problem.  The wife wants the Civic for fuel saving trips back to TX easier parking in New Orleans and other things.  Kiddo liked it too.  It might be ready for her in 8 years when she is ready to drive.  
 

Once we close on the next house, I will be looking at them harder and likely getting one.  Since we have to sell and buy another home, I'm not purchasing one now.

I've never driven one on the street but I drove a students car on the track and I found it to be surprisingly competent.  I really enjoyed it despite my lifelong dislike of FWD cars.

gearheadE30
gearheadE30 Dork
1/31/22 11:55 a.m.

I don't have a ton to add on specific vehicle choices (I drive 20k+ miles a year but my needs meant the answer has been a 2004 Suburban 2500 with an 8.1 of all things) but will say with my regular cross country drives, a few things jump out:

  • Others have mentioned this, but elbow room is super nice. I love my old E30s, but man, nothing beats stretching out, having room for drinks and snacks, space for your knees and arms to be in various different positions vs. being locked in one spot, etc. I'm very tall, so knee space is a big deal. Most modern small cars I've driven have some silly protuberance on the dash that fights my right knee for space.
  • Throttle sensitivity. I generally don't use cruise control because it is my gauge for making sure I'm paying enough attention and not getting too tired, and have found some cars to have very strange/aggressive/nonlinear throttle mapping that is exhausting to deal with even when I'm fresh. Maybe not so common with the newer stuff; most of my issues come from earlier electronic throttle cars. Suburban is a case in point - I put a few thousand miles on it locally no problem, but on the first long trip found that there is a step in the throttle map right where you want to be at 75-78 mph where the curve ramps up and makes it a pain in the ass to maintain constant speed. Fortunately, EFILive exists.
  • Sound system, especially if you listen to audiobooks and podcasts. I've had a few cars with great sound systems for music, but couldn't get rid of the bassy bottom or boomy midrange if I was listening to people talking, which meant the volume had to be higher for the same level of understandability I get if I can dial that stuff out. And after a while, all that volume can be fatiguing.
  • Blind spots. It's a duh, but it's also something I don't seem to noice on test drives. For example, my old Tahoe the rearview mirror was up high enough I could look under it. In the Suburban, the mirror is in my line of sight and I am constantly moving or slouching to be able to see around it in traffic. Didn't even notice it until the first really long drive when my neck started to hurt, and something I will forever pay attention to every time I look at a new daily now.
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
1/31/22 1:24 p.m.

I agree a Civic sport comes in manual and should also be driven.  I hear you guys on longer trips and big trucks and SUVs.  I do those in my Colorado in case I need to carry more stuff, need tools, etc.  we use it for family camping trips too.  I can fit a lot in my locked and covered bed.

The target for this car is a daily commute of me and my lunch are occassionally taking a load of snacks and drinks to the office.  
 

@APEowner I too generally dislike FWD cars.  I did get the inside front to struggle for traction taking a highway intersection u turn at an exit ramp.  Considering I was taking it at about 40-50% I was a bit surprised.  The car had more body roll than expected and I think the all season tires were hard.  They are 2 years old with 7k mikes. 
 

 


 

 

Floating Doc (Forum Supporter)
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) PowerDork
1/31/22 2:11 p.m.
dxman92 said:

The Civic Sport is a nice looking hatch these days that you can still get with a manual trans.

I autocross codrive one, a rear bar swap and some 200 TW tires and they're a top contender in H Street. 
There's even a pin you can pull on the front strut mount to automatically add negative camber. 

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
3/10/22 9:41 p.m.

Just ordered a 22 Si today.  Should be built in May and in the US in June.  Dealer is selling it for MSRP which is a good deal compared to the used market.

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