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Osterkraut
Osterkraut UltraDork
3/26/12 8:27 p.m.
mndsm wrote: Alternate to the tire debate- I heard rumors of an "atlanta" clause wherein shipping on parts no longer counted because anyone in ATL has an unfair advantage. Is this true? I did not see it in the rules.

Moving to Atlanta is NOT included in there Challenge budget. There you go!

darkbuddha
darkbuddha Reader
3/26/12 8:30 p.m.

In reply to 93EXCivic:

Yeah, I know, but call me cynical about its actual impact on the outcome. See, I already assume the serious contenders (the ones that really have a shot at a top finish) have (or will get) the coin to take advantage of the new rule and therefor benefit from it (which will just reinforce their already likely outcome as a top finisher) And I also assume the folks that can't/won't be able to take advantage of the new rule probably (because of the extra cost) wouldn't really be vying for a top spot anyway (which will just reinforce their already likely non-top finish).

Where it becomes interesting is for the folks that might be able to scrape up the coin to take advantage of the rule and being able to run proper rubber enables them to step on the toes (and times) of some of those anticipated top finishers. That'd be nice to see. ;)

Per Schroeder
Per Schroeder Technical Editor/Advertising Director
3/26/12 8:56 p.m.

I'm seeing people show up with some pretty fresh Hoosier A6s and claiming them as free from other autocrossers. It's something we can't police, so we can at least make it interesting by biasing it towards our presenting sponsor.

AutoXR
AutoXR HalfDork
3/26/12 9:03 p.m.

Canadians are still allowed to compete!

I know I'm excited!

Tim Suddard
Tim Suddard Publisher
3/26/12 9:17 p.m.

I am in Atlanta for the next couple of days (where I can get stuff shipped cheaply). When I get back, I am sure we will discuss this some more. We don't want to escalate the budget, but we need to do something to keep things fair and even.

Argo1
Argo1 Reader
3/26/12 9:29 p.m.

I understand the intent of the rule. There is a lot of "fudging" on tires. It would also be nice for the competitors to run the sponsor's tires. Why not encourage Kumho to offer a discount to entrants or allow entrants to claim only a percentage (60-70%) of their actual purchase price of Kumhos. This would not disadvantage budget folks like free tires would and also would encourage those with the budget for new tires to buy Kumho.

Pat
Pat Reader
3/26/12 9:39 p.m.
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:
93EXCivic wrote: In my size they are only $716... That sucks cause my only chance to do well is in the autocross....

I'm more mad that Kumho doesn't make cheater drag tires, to be honest. Traction is really all i'm lacking to pull a 10, and i'd really like to show the Mopars what's up.

Find some slicks and come and get me. Make sure you don't leave your tranny at the line. :-)

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac MegaDork
3/26/12 9:40 p.m.
Pat wrote:
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:
93EXCivic wrote: In my size they are only $716... That sucks cause my only chance to do well is in the autocross....

I'm more mad that Kumho doesn't make cheater drag tires, to be honest. Traction is really all i'm lacking to pull a 10, and i'd really like to show the Mopars what's up.

Find some slicks and come and get me. Make sure you don't leave your tranny at the line. :-)

You should donate some to me for $free.99.

No room in budget for drag tires. There IS room in the budget for KUMHO drag tires, though.

mndsm
mndsm UberDork
3/26/12 9:50 p.m.

I have a chassis that I paid $400 for that we could make into your car in a weekend..... Wanna make a deal on some parts? We could go Pat hunting. We do it right- might even get a Solara trans in that budget.

JoeyM
JoeyM SuperDork
3/26/12 10:02 p.m.

I'm probably not going to be able to afford v710's but think a "free kumhos" rule could still benefit me. Even if I can only afford kumho touring tires, it would let me use the money I was going on spend in tires for other stuff.

[speaking as someone who knows their slow "specials" car is not eligible to win anything, but who wants to participate anyway. If your car is fast enough to be a contender for a top spot, touring tires will not be an option you would consider]

SVreX
SVreX UltimaDork
3/26/12 10:29 p.m.
Per Schroeder wrote: I'm seeing people show up with some pretty fresh Hoosier A6s and claiming them as free from other autocrossers. It's something we can't police, so we can at least make it interesting by biasing it towards our presenting sponsor.

I like giving the best sponsor an advantage.

Perhaps the "free" A6's could be combated with a heavier application of rules 31 and 32? I love you guys, but it looks a little soft sometimes.

I thought "free" had to be FMVed.

92CelicaHalfTrac
92CelicaHalfTrac MegaDork
3/26/12 10:35 p.m.
mndsm wrote: I have a chassis that I paid $400 for that we could make into your car in a weekend..... Wanna make a deal on some parts? We could go Pat hunting. We do it right- might even get a Solara trans in that budget.

Or just convert the ST205 trans to FWD...

Pat
Pat Reader
3/27/12 5:06 a.m.
mndsm wrote: I have a chassis that I paid $400 for that we could make into your car in a weekend..... Wanna make a deal on some parts? We could go Pat hunting. We do it right- might even get a Solara trans in that budget.

I wasn't going to go next year, but you two are making me reconsider.

On the free tire debate, my take is this; if you want it fair, even and a true low buck event, ditch all of the freebies and have a real tech inspection. Giving safety allowances to make sure brakes are safe (for example) is a cop out. This will slow cars down a bit but it will level the playing field. Trying to be competitive in this event is getting too expensive, which I feel is why attendance numbers are down.

icaneat50eggs
icaneat50eggs Reader
3/27/12 6:07 a.m.

When you say kuhmo tires won't count towards the budget, I assume that means kuhmo will be giving a set to all participants. How do you get your free set?

speedbiu
speedbiu Reader
3/27/12 6:45 a.m.

I would get my tires ordered early so if they change the tire rules you have to be grandfathered.

AngryCorvair
AngryCorvair PowerDork
3/27/12 9:34 a.m.
Pat wrote:
mndsm wrote: I have a chassis that I paid $400 for that we could make into your car in a weekend..... Wanna make a deal on some parts? We could go Pat hunting. We do it right- might even get a Solara trans in that budget.

I wasn't going to go next year, but you two are making me reconsider.

On the free tire debate, my take is this; if you want it fair, even and a true low buck event, ditch all of the freebies and have a real tech inspection. Giving safety allowances to make sure brakes are safe (for example) is a cop out. This will slow cars down a bit but it will level the playing field. Trying to be competitive in this event is getting too expensive, which I feel is why attendance numbers are down.

i agree, and i would volunteer to work the tech inspection if manpower is an issue.

however, perhaps a more stringent tech inspection means more risk of lawsuit?

poopshovel
poopshovel PowerDork
3/27/12 9:50 a.m.

RE: The tire debate: We got "BS" called on us when we showed up with sticker A3S04's on $50 diamonds a few years ago. They were closeouts (A6's were out) and were $90 each shipped from Hoosier with a receipt to prove it. Look for the deals. They're out there.

If you want a competitive car in ANY FORM OF RACING, it starts with good tires. We saw a lack of them at our first Challenge and pounced on the opportunity to show that a 90hp car could get top 5 in the auto-x.

Anyway, if you're saying "suddenly my car isn't going to be competitive because I'm running on street tires," your car wouldn't have been competitive anyway.

Buy some used kumhos, soak 'em in goop and HTFU.

GRM: This is a big step in the right direction. You'll notice nobody at LeMons is crying "Yeah, but they got better tires and brakes than me!"

Pat
Pat Reader
3/27/12 10:14 a.m.
AngryCorvair wrote:
Pat wrote:
mndsm wrote: I have a chassis that I paid $400 for that we could make into your car in a weekend..... Wanna make a deal on some parts? We could go Pat hunting. We do it right- might even get a Solara trans in that budget.

I wasn't going to go next year, but you two are making me reconsider.

On the free tire debate, my take is this; if you want it fair, even and a true low buck event, ditch all of the freebies and have a real tech inspection. Giving safety allowances to make sure brakes are safe (for example) is a cop out. This will slow cars down a bit but it will level the playing field. Trying to be competitive in this event is getting too expensive, which I feel is why attendance numbers are down.

i agree, and i would volunteer to work the tech inspection if manpower is an issue.

however, perhaps a more stringent tech inspection means more risk of lawsuit?

No more than there is now since no one checks. My tech inspection the last 4 years has been to tell me to put a zip tie on my overflow tank hose. Not one look at brake lines, wheel bearings, seat belts, etc.

As a matter of fact, one year, I forgot to bolt my seatbelt back in and went through tech with no seat belt....and passed! Of course, I bolted it back in before running the car anywhere, but my point is if no one looks, saying you can do something for free doesn't limit liability.

AutoXR
AutoXR HalfDork
3/27/12 10:56 a.m.

I had vice grips on a throttle cable and got passed (lol) That overflow thing is the only part I have ever been called on

Gasoline
Gasoline Reader
3/27/12 11:41 a.m.

Baby gettin new shoes!

PhilStubbs
PhilStubbs Reader
3/27/12 1:52 p.m.

I like this new tire rule. I am related(by government contract and tungsten ring on my finger) to a kumho wholesaler. Watch out auto-x'rs!!! Does kumho make a real drag slick too? I'll sell my m&h's to knock that out of the budget too.

noddaz
noddaz Reader
3/27/12 2:07 p.m.

In reply to Per Schroeder:

Well then. Instead of inflating everybody's budget, get rid of "free". Bring back "fair market value". Just a thought. And yes, I am just another hack that has never done this. And no, I don't know anything. Let alone everything. And I don't even play a race car driver on TV.

Supercoupe
Supercoupe HalfDork
3/27/12 6:23 p.m.

alas another year missed by me, I have a wedding to attend.

Unless someone would be interested in getting my car back up north, I could get a flight out Sat afternoon and still make the wedding...

mndsm
mndsm UberDork
3/27/12 6:34 p.m.
92CelicaHalfTrac wrote:
mndsm wrote: I have a chassis that I paid $400 for that we could make into your car in a weekend..... Wanna make a deal on some parts? We could go Pat hunting. We do it right- might even get a Solara trans in that budget.

Or just convert the ST205 trans to FWD...

If we're doing that we need a camry and those scary turbos you bought.

mndsm
mndsm UberDork
3/27/12 6:44 p.m.
Pat wrote:
mndsm wrote: I have a chassis that I paid $400 for that we could make into your car in a weekend..... Wanna make a deal on some parts? We could go Pat hunting. We do it right- might even get a Solara trans in that budget.

I wasn't going to go next year, but you two are making me reconsider.

On the free tire debate, my take is this; if you want it fair, even and a true low buck event, ditch all of the freebies and have a real tech inspection. Giving safety allowances to make sure brakes are safe (for example) is a cop out. This will slow cars down a bit but it will level the playing field. Trying to be competitive in this event is getting too expensive, which I feel is why attendance numbers are down.

The more the merrier. This is my first challenge car though, so unless I get lucky, you've probably got me beat.

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