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infinitenexus
infinitenexus Reader
10/29/19 9:51 a.m.

And they're pretty positive, too.

world class sports car with a detroit badge:

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/first-drives/a29613585/2020-ford-mustang-shelby-gt500-first-drive-review/

 

"as easy to control as a Miata:"

https://www.autoblog.com/2019/10/29/2020-ford-shelby-gt500-first-drive/

He goes further to say around a racetrack, a C8 wouldn't stand a chance.

Vigo
Vigo MegaDork
10/29/19 10:40 a.m.

That's the first long-form 'print' article I've read from Mr. Cammisa in a while. Good stuff.  

I'm glad Ford seems to be nailing this. I'm not crazy about Mustangs, but the list of Mustangs I'd be happy to own has grown hugely in the past 10 years or so. Now there's a whole list! I can distinctly remember when the number was only slightly above zero. I have to acknowledge the significance of being 'won over' as someone who has been very critical of Mustangs in the past. Well done, Ford. 

infinitenexus
infinitenexus Reader
10/29/19 10:42 a.m.

Honestly I never liked Mustangs until I drove my dad's 2008 GT one day.  After power sliding around a corner on "accident" I fell in love with them.  A couple months later I bought a 2012 GT.  The modern ones are definitely too heavy but they offer a lot of performance for the dollar.  And that Coyote V8 is a gem, indeed.

Tom_Spangler
Tom_Spangler PowerDork
10/29/19 11:48 a.m.
infinitenexus said:

He goes further to say around a racetrack, a C8 wouldn't stand a chance.

I'm a pretty big Ford fan, but that's honestly hard to believe. The GT500 may have more power, but the Vette is lighter, lower, has better weight distribution, and puts it's power down more effectively. The GT500 would probably win at the drag strip, but on a road course, my money's on the C8.

Dave M
Dave M HalfDork
10/29/19 12:37 p.m.
Tom_Spangler said:
infinitenexus said:

He goes further to say around a racetrack, a C8 wouldn't stand a chance.

I'm a pretty big Ford fan, but that's honestly hard to believe. The GT500 may have more power, but the Vette is lighter, lower, has better weight distribution, and puts it's power down more effectively. The GT500 would probably win at the drag strip, but on a road course, my money's on the C8.

Depends on the track! An extra 300 HP will make up for a lot.  Also, the Vette is cheaper, so I expect that whatever future Vette costs $95,000 would be able to beat the GT500 around a track.

Either way, we live in a golden age for performance. I want this car! :(
 

Either

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
10/29/19 12:46 p.m.

Looking forward to a drive in one.  I have a friend with two on order.  One with a Sept build date in performance blue and the second with an April build date in orange with the carbon fiber package.  He's going to flip the Sept blue one and should make enough to effectivly get the orange one for basically what he sold his GT350 for last week.  I drove some of his old GT500's, the 2013 was simply nuts from 80-130, I'm hoping this is even more nuts.devil

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
10/29/19 12:48 p.m.

If the current Mustang was in a package the size of the original, I may have given it a glance.  Otherwise, it's just too big for me.

infinitenexus
infinitenexus Reader
10/29/19 1:17 p.m.

Don't forget the monster tires this car is riding on.  That'll go a long way towards good lap times.  A 305 front tire on the GT500 vs a 245 (if I remember correctly) on the Vette is going to make a HUGE difference on a track.  The C8 has also been tested as having worse brakes than the C7 and even being mid engined, most reviewers found it didn't handle better than the C7; it suffered from a lot of understeer.  Add in 300 extra horsepower on the Mustang and it makes perfect sense to me that it's faster than the Vette.  Yes it's heavy, even with the track pack option being around 4,000 pounds, but remember how many lap records Terry Fair set back in his 2011 Mustang often at a weight of 3900-4000 lbs, because he was running monster tires (also a skilled driver, obviously).  The brakes are gigantic as well.  I imagine with all that power, grip, braking, and weight, the Mustang will chew through tires quickly though.

Rodan
Rodan Dork
10/29/19 1:29 p.m.

Lots of hyperbole in these early articles... MT even compared it to a GT2RS... which has 60 less horsepower, but weighs over 800lbs less.

And most of these are talking about GT500s with the CFTP, which puts the car in the mid $90k range, before ADM.

I'm looking forward to seeing some lap times and direct comparisons with other cars.

No question it's amazing.  But it's also a $100k Mustang... it better be amazing! 

Dave M
Dave M HalfDork
10/29/19 1:42 p.m.
Rodan said:

Lots of hyperbole in these early articles... MT even compared it to a GT2RS... which has 60 less horsepower, but weighs over 800lbs less.

And most of these are talking about GT500s with the CFTP, which puts the car in the mid $90k range, before ADM.

I'm looking forward to seeing some lap times and direct comparisons with other cars.

No question it's amazing.  But it's also a $100k Mustang... it better be amazing! 

Still a performance bargain second only to the C8!  Your direct German competition is a M4 or base 911, both of which I'd wager get smoked by the GT500.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson MegaDork
10/29/19 1:55 p.m.

BTW, while I'm dying to get a drive in a GT500, if it was my money on the line I'd take a C8 and wait for GT350's to drop in price as GT500's come on line. 

Tom_Spangler
Tom_Spangler PowerDork
10/29/19 2:05 p.m.
infinitenexus said:

Don't forget the monster tires this car is riding on.  That'll go a long way towards good lap times.  A 305 front tire on the GT500 vs a 245 (if I remember correctly) on the Vette is going to make a HUGE difference on a track.  The C8 has also been tested as having worse brakes than the C7 and even being mid engined, most reviewers found it didn't handle better than the C7; it suffered from a lot of understeer.  Add in 300 extra horsepower on the Mustang and it makes perfect sense to me that it's faster than the Vette.  Yes it's heavy, even with the track pack option being around 4,000 pounds, but remember how many lap records Terry Fair set back in his 2011 Mustang often at a weight of 3900-4000 lbs, because he was running monster tires (also a skilled driver, obviously).  The brakes are gigantic as well.  I imagine with all that power, grip, braking, and weight, the Mustang will chew through tires quickly though.

I just checked, and yeah, you're right, the C8 has 245s on the front! That seems tiny for a modern supercar (ish), and probably explains the understeer everyone reports. I can see how the Mustang might be faster, then. There's no substitute for a E36 M3load of power and tire, after all.

Dootz
Dootz Reader
10/29/19 4:08 p.m.

In reply to Dave M :

Um, you forgetting the ZL1 1LE?

Ranger50
Ranger50 UltimaDork
10/29/19 4:24 p.m.
Snrub
Snrub HalfDork
10/29/19 5:19 p.m.

Sounds like they made a heck of a car.

I'd be surprised if a GT500 is not faster around most tracks than a base C8, it has an extra 50% power and it sounds like it has the handling goods.  A Camaro ZL1 1LE would be faster than a base C7 around most tracks, but a lot of that comes down to using a track oriented tire. The gap to the C7 Grand Sport is smaller.

wearymicrobe
wearymicrobe UberDork
10/29/19 5:21 p.m.

Since when is the base corvette model the one that you benchmark against for track use.  This is a 30K base car with darn near 60K of go fast strapped to it. It better be fast.

Are people really going to go for this and use them at speed over a GT350? I mean I love the looks of it and I love the performance but 100K with ADM is a very bitter pill to swallow with Ford service and sales experiences. 

Dave M
Dave M HalfDork
10/29/19 6:08 p.m.

In reply to Dootz :

Oops! That too, although a C7 Grand Sport was cheaper OTD.

MazdaFace
MazdaFace Dork
10/29/19 6:28 p.m.

In reply to wearymicrobe :

That's my thought too. The number of people using a base model Corvette (don't get me wrong still a great car) as the benchmark to other top of the line versions of other cars is amazing to me. 

81cpcamaro
81cpcamaro Dork
10/30/19 10:10 a.m.

Front tire size on mid engine cars is often smaller than front engine ones. The Ford GT came with 235 front tires, and it handled quite well. So the 245 on the Vette doesn't seem small to me.

Rodan
Rodan Dork
10/30/19 10:23 a.m.
Ranger50 said:

https://youtu.be/KEsted6S8kg

Someone with sharper eyes than mine noticed that the 10.6 @ 133 timeslip was dated in April 2019... hmmmm.

Either a pre-production car, or there's some funny business going on...

Saron81
Saron81 Reader
10/30/19 10:29 a.m.
MazdaFace said:

In reply to wearymicrobe :

That's my thought too. The number of people using a base model Corvette (don't get me wrong still a great car) as the benchmark to other top of the line versions of other cars is amazing to me. 


That's the only current Vette model there is....

and the Vette has always been the American sports car benchmark.

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
10/30/19 10:35 a.m.

I still can't wrap my head around the fact that it's one fat ass away from my old Caprice 9C1 squad car in weight.

infinitenexus
infinitenexus Reader
10/31/19 6:48 a.m.

I think that it's nice that a Mustang is being compared to a Corvette.  They've always been in completely different leagues.

Dootz
Dootz Reader
10/31/19 7:14 a.m.

In reply to infinitenexus :

The 2000 Cobra R was the last time the Mustang got close to the Corvette

STM317
STM317 UltraDork
10/31/19 7:54 a.m.
infinitenexus said:

I think that it's nice that a Mustang is being compared to a Corvette.  They've always been in completely different leagues.

The top level Mustangs (and Camaros) have been compared to lower trim Corvettes for the last 10 years or so as they usually are in a similar performance/price ballpark. It's a big reason why they went to a mid engine layout for the C8.

The Boss 302, the Shelby GT350, etc all turn really respectable lap times relative to Corvettes of the same price range and era.

A C7 Stingray Z51 did a 2:53.8 lap in C&Ds Lightning Lap

And the Mustang GT PP2 did an identical 2:53.8

A Shelby GT350R did a 2:51.8

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