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FlightService
FlightService New Reader
9/13/10 6:40 a.m.

When I worked at a dealership we had a family come in looking for their sons first car. Another sales person sold them the car he wanted. A Terminator Mustang and he already had an appointment to do a pulley swap.

He was in the Greenville, SC paper two weeks later where he killed himself on a back road doing over 120 mph.

bravenrace
bravenrace Dork
9/13/10 6:49 a.m.
3Door4G wrote:
neon4891 wrote: I remember what 18 could pull off with a sub100HP accord and worn 13" snow tires...
Quoted for truth. I had an 82 Tercel when I was 18, Had to be less than 70hp, and I got in plenty of trouble with that. No 18-year-old has any business driving around a 750hp car.

Speaking of which, is this a verified 750hp? The last teenager that told me that had about 250hp.

dj06482
dj06482 Reader
9/13/10 7:49 a.m.

I had two friends growing up that built some pretty serious cars (A tubbed '56 F100 with a 429 CJ and a '67 Mustang with a 289) with their father for when they turned 16. Their father was a former drag racer, and they put a lot of their own time, effort, and money into their cars, so they had a healthy respect for them.

tuna55
tuna55 Dork
9/13/10 9:29 a.m.
tuna55 wrote: You guys are all assuming the Camaro guy is a total hack. It's possible he's not. Just sayin'.

Wait, this kid is 18, says he has 1000 hp, doesn't want an instructor? OK, nevermind, he's a total hack. Tell him not to, because he's a hack, and then videotape it when he does it anyway.

StevenFV19
StevenFV19 Reader
9/13/10 10:34 a.m.

His family has a ton of money... they have 3 drag cars, all top of the line stuff ect. I'm pretty positive the car has 750hp. And no, he took it to the shop to get built, we're both getting an associates degree in High Performance engineering. I can tell so far that he knows what to get done to an engine, just not how. He also street raced a lot, so he has to be good....

Steven

cwh
cwh SuperDork
9/13/10 11:15 a.m.

" He also street raced a lot, so he has to be good" Nice, straight, flat, dry streets. He is way too brave (stupid and inexperienced) to try all-out on that course. I'm thinking that the car will be badly damaged, possibly he will be too. Frankly, I would not take part in this. It will go very badly.

jstein77
jstein77 Dork
9/13/10 11:39 a.m.
StevenFV19 wrote: His family has a ton of money... they have 3 drag cars, all top of the line stuff ect. I'm pretty positive the car has 750hp. And no, he took it to the shop to get built, we're both getting an associates degree in High Performance engineering. I can tell so far that he knows what to get done to an engine, just not how. He also street raced a lot, so he has to be good.... Steven

I have to tell you - if this thread is real, it's really scaring me. And I can tell by the other responses, I'm not alone. Please keep in mind that racing is a dangerous activity, not to be taken lightly. Hopefully, an autocross or two will bring him back to reality before he gets hurt.

3Door4G
3Door4G Reader
9/13/10 12:01 p.m.

Please don't back down on this point. No matter what. Let him call you a chicken or whatever, but do not let him on the track without an instructor. Even if he does an autocross first.

Vigo
Vigo HalfDork
9/13/10 1:04 p.m.

Instructors dont have brake pedals or steering wheels. If someone's going to die it might as well not be BOTH of them

mad_machine
mad_machine SuperDork
9/13/10 3:21 p.m.

this can only end badly

RexSeven
RexSeven Dork
9/13/10 4:00 p.m.

Sounds like one of those "money can't buy common sense" types. Without instruction, this kid's gonna end up hurting himself, or worse, someone else on track.

Show him this thread and if he starts calling us Bob Costas, remind him that many of the posters have been road racing longer than he has been alive.

NINJAEDIT: Filterpwned!

oldsaw
oldsaw SuperDork
9/13/10 4:59 p.m.

I have a very real problem with any organization that would even allow a complete novice on track with an inappropriately-prepared car - seems like an instructor should be mandatory, too. Then again, this could be the same group that offers 16yr-olds as instructors.

Steven, you may have prodigious skills at the wheel, but (other than your claims) there is precious little hard information to suggest either you or your buddy should elevate this "contest". I offer this opinion as a non-parent, but one who knows from experience that youthful bravado rarely beats the painful truth of reality.

StevenFV19
StevenFV19 Reader
9/13/10 5:33 p.m.

I was planning on showing him this anyways. I think he will realize that turning and keeping speed is a lot different than going straight, I want him to do a PDX, obvioiusly with an instructor, so he can get something different out of his car than just speed. I dont see any problem with highly prepped cars on track, after their instructor gives them a hint that makes them realize that the instructor knows that they're talking about, then they listen for the rest of the time (Every student I have had hesitates for the first few instructions until they listen, and feel the car reacting better to what I told them to do) To say that, I dont have a problem with him going out on track, I know he will be more cautious if someone other than me is his instructor. He wouldn't listen to me for obvious reasons (ie: this thread).

Steven

friedgreencorrado
friedgreencorrado SuperDork
9/14/10 2:05 a.m.
StevenFV19 wrote: I was planning on showing him this anyways. I think he will realize that turning and keeping speed is a lot different than going straight, I want him to do a PDX, obvioiusly with an instructor, so he can get something different out of his car than just speed. I dont see any problem with highly prepped cars on track, after their instructor gives them a hint that makes them realize that the instructor knows that they're talking about, then they listen for the rest of the time (Every student I have had hesitates for the first few instructions until they listen, and feel the car reacting better to what I told them to do) To say that, I dont have a problem with him going out on track, I know he will be more cautious if someone other than me is his instructor. He wouldn't listen to me for obvious reasons (ie: this thread). Steven

Steve, you gotta find an instructor for this guy. It's one thing if he just puts the car off the road because he doesn't respect our version of the sport..it's quite another if he puts the car off the road at triple digits because his ego won't let him do anything less than that. Man, this is sounding more and more dangerous every moment.

81gtv6
81gtv6 Dork
9/14/10 9:37 a.m.

^ Very true.

scardeal
scardeal Reader
9/14/10 10:12 a.m.

"Your ego's writing checks your body can't cash!"

StevenFV19
StevenFV19 Reader
9/14/10 10:20 a.m.
friedgreencorrado wrote:

Steve, you gotta find an instructor for this guy. It's one thing if he just puts the car off the road because he doesn't respect our version of the sport..it's quite another if he puts the car off the road at triple digits because his ego won't let him do anything less than that. Man, this is sounding more and more dangerous every moment.

He will have an instructor. Last night I told him my plan for him to go out on track a few weeks of autocrossing the Camaro, and then a PDX, and he agreed to an instructor...not like he could go out on track without one anyways, novices MUST have an instructor. I might go out one weekend to make a pass in his "slow" 1000hp dragster, if there is a PDX around that time, we might just do this at Summit Point since my car is still in MD, and I know SP a lot better than Mid-O.

Steven

pinchvalve
pinchvalve SuperDork
9/14/10 12:53 p.m.

They are heavy and people make fun of them, but the F-Body has had a lot of track development and they can make big horsepower. If the owner has lightened it for the 1/4 mile, it could be a beast. He is probably going to have a better power-to-weight ratio and more contact patch to work with. The question comes down to suspension/tires and brakes. Drag tires have no sidewalls, I would NEVER take a set onto a road course. Suspensions are usually set up for traction in a straight line, not for corners. And stock brakes and pads are usually enough for the drag strip, but you need some serious hardware for most tracks.

There is no doubt that a $6000 Civic can beat a $40,000 Camaro on a track, but the opposite is also true. Either way, it will be a very interesting race.

friedgreencorrado
friedgreencorrado SuperDork
9/14/10 11:51 p.m.
pinchvalve wrote: They are heavy and people make fun of them, but the F-Body has had a lot of track development and they can make big horsepower. If the owner has lightened it for the 1/4 mile, it could be a beast. He is probably going to have a better power-to-weight ratio and more contact patch to work with. The question comes down to suspension/tires and brakes. Drag tires have no sidewalls, I would NEVER take a set onto a road course. Suspensions are usually set up for traction in a straight line, not for corners. And stock brakes and pads are usually enough for the drag strip, but you need some serious hardware for most tracks. There is no doubt that a $6000 Civic can beat a $40,000 Camaro on a track, but the opposite is also true. Either way, it will be a very interesting race.

I would never make fun of an F-body..they have a lot of potential in dang near anything we do, whether straight, curvy, or just plain round. I think I agree with ya about the drag tires, though. Don't they actually have weaker sidewalls on purpose to help the thing hook up off the line? (I'm thinking old school "wrinkle slicks" here).

MikeSVO
MikeSVO Reader
9/17/10 1:02 a.m.

A street legal drag slick is a wrinkle-wall type of tire, and not good for an application like this (or anything that's not drag racing, really). But a 'drag radial', like those made by Nittos, BFGs and M/Ts, definately have some sidewall. And if they're lower profile, they could be pretty good, too. I remember a comparo in an issue of Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords WAY back in the day that had a hopped up Mustang SVO on an autocross course with some big V8 cars. It had Nittos on all 4 corners and mopped the floor with the V8 cars (but you know, not so much at the drag strip test).

I have a Fox Mustang drag car with the M/T ET Street Slicks. THOSE have no sidewalls. You can feel the rear swaying, rolling on the sidewalls even when going straight, and it doesn't tighten up until you stomp on it an all that slop in the sidewalls gets wound up. And, as you may have assumed, when you let up on the gas, it loosens right up again - when you might be at the end of the track doing 110 or more...kinda creepy, especially if you have to hit the breaks.

Since you said he had a lot of money in motor an TRANS work, I'm picturing an automatic Camaro on big n' little Welds, which are NOT designed for turning at all...

If it was a Z28 or SS with a manual and some motor work, I'd probably say it would be an interesting competition. Camaros aren't bad at all, but once it's a drag car...welp, it should stay on the drag strip.

FlightService
FlightService New Reader
9/22/10 6:34 a.m.

Do we have any results from said race yet?

StevenFV19
StevenFV19 Reader
9/22/10 10:45 a.m.

Nope, not yet. I am going home this weekend to instruct at Summit Point, I am trying to get him to take the Camaro to the PDX, so he can try it out. The track is 3.5hrs from his house so he'll probably wimp out.

Steven

mr2peak
mr2peak New Reader
9/22/10 11:27 a.m.

Tell him it's only 1 hour if he has 750hp

Tom Heath
Tom Heath Webmaster
9/22/10 1:30 p.m.
StevenFV19 wrote: Nope, not yet. I am going home this weekend to instruct at Summit Point, I am trying to get him to take the Camaro to the PDX, so he can try it out. The track has lots of turns so he'll probably wise up. Steven

Fixed that for you...

wbjones
wbjones Dork
9/22/10 4:09 p.m.
Tom Heath wrote: so he'll probably wise up.

darn... it was starting to sound like we might have had a shot at elevating the gene pool a little...

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