I know electric cars don't really "need" much of a grille, and they probably fill that front area in solid for aerodynamics, but god it looks weird. I wish they would at least paint that part black and make it look kind of like a grille.
I know electric cars don't really "need" much of a grille, and they probably fill that front area in solid for aerodynamics, but god it looks weird. I wish they would at least paint that part black and make it look kind of like a grille.
slowbird said:I know electric cars don't really "need" much of a grille, and they probably fill that front area in solid for aerodynamics, but god it looks weird. I wish they would at least paint that part black and make it look kind of like a grille.
Agreed, I think that's one of the things I still need to get used to with EVs, especially CUVs.
The problem is that the grille is one of the primary ways to slather brand identity on a car, because they all look exactly like each other :) I don't think we've seen a good solution to this yet - even Teslas have vestigial grilles (Model S) or blank spots where they should be (Model 3). Some designer needs to come up with a way to make a car recognizable without resorting to a fake grille.
The Mach-E implementation is weird but the grille and hood are pretty strong Mustang identifiers.
Looks better than the new RAV4 HV. Looks better than anything from the general. Looks better than anything Nissan makes. Looks better than anything from FCA. I probably won't ever buy one but I don't hate it.
There are now smartphones on the market for over $1500. Giant iPhone screens in cars becoming more common and EVs slowly coming down in price. It won't be long before there's a "crossover" that's somewhere between a phone and a car, but nobody is really sure which one it is. The Samsung iMustang RAZR eco-X.
In reply to mr2s2000elise :
What was disgusting about it? It was a far better vehicle than the Prius of the same era in every way. My daughter had one for a couple of years and absolutely loved it. Have several friends who have bought and or leased them and all loved them. I don't know why it was not a success. They were great cars.
Heh. I was just thinking how cool it would be if there was an electric version and then one with the GT500 drivetrain.
But I get the feeling that Ford and GM are content to leave those kind of shenanigans to Chrysler.
Meh, I'm not swayed either way. I'm a petrolhead true and true, but I accept, and am ok with, the coming EV's. 230 mile range is good, but still not enough for me to consider one. Maybe that's because I'm a car guy and like long road trips, maybe it's because I live in Texas where driving a bunch of miles is just part of life. When an EV can be close to the convenience of the ICE and the prices are in line with what my budget can afford, I'll be happy to make the switch. I just don't think the battery tech has gone far enough yet and understand that you need people to buy them to invest. It's an inflection point we haven't crossed yet. We get closer, but only in small amounts. When a new battery tech finally breaks, the market will be flooded and we'll see the wave change.
I think I get, however, why they tacked the Mustang name on it, though. It's a name that is synonymous with Ford and what the general masses probably still think of when they hear the Ford name. Does it dilute the name among purists? Sure, but purists are such a small amount, it doesn't matter.
-Rob
Curious Rob - what do you think the tipping point is for range? Is it one of those "just another 10%" things that's a moving target, or do you have a number in mind? How about charging speed - how fast do you need to be able to add range for it to be convenient?
mazdeuce - Seth said:People need to notice it. What was that weird hybrid not quite a small van thing that they made but really didn't sell? I'm not sure if it was even good because it was invisible in the "I never see it and when I do I don't notice" way. At least people will see these. They will notice when their co-worker parks in the parking garage and ask them about it. It just needs to be good enough that it stands on it's own from a driving/value standpoint.
The C-Max. I actually really like the C-Max. My grandmother has one. But it's weird and not even slightly cool in any other way than me looking at it and thinking "this looks like it would do a lot of car things really well"
T.J. said:I personaly don’t like that they chose to use the Mustang name and in general I am not a fan of SUVs, especially swoopy roofed ones without much utility. I do think these will sell though.
All of this. ^^^^^^
It would look... acceptable if they cut a 2" high horizontal slice out between the top of the wheel arch and the bottom of the headlight all the way around the... vehicle, and also set it 2" closer to the ground.
It's still got less than nothing I want.
slowbird said:I wish they would at least paint that part black and make it look kind of like a grille.
Just NO.
Fake grilles are awful in every form, and the faker they are the awfuller they are.
For me, range-wise, unless charging is fairly quick and as available as gas stations, I'd want to see 400 miles of highway range in the winter with the heat on. That's enough that I'd never need to stop for a charge before I'd be stopping for more than 5 minutes anyway.
Adrian_Thompson said:In reply to mr2s2000elise :
What was disgusting about it? It was a far better vehicle than the Prius of the same era in every way. My daughter had one for a couple of years and absolutely loved it. Have several friends who have bought and or leased them and all loved them. I don't know why it was not a success. They were great cars.
Yeah, my daughter has a 2013 C-Max she bought a couple years ago. She wanted a hybrid wagon-ish car to replace her bugeye Impreza wagon. She researched the different manufacturers' offerings, drove a bunch of them, and bought a really clean high-trim C-Max with 50k on it for not a lot of money. It's a very nice place to be, the driving experience slam dunks over the Prii, and it's pretty darn good at being a vehicular Swiss Army knife while handing in 45 mpg in a semi-urban commute.
It's not sporty, but the C-Max is not even in the same zipcode as a penalty box commuter appliance. "Disgusting" is pretty much the last word I would use to describe it.
rslifkin said:For me, range-wise, unless charging is fairly quick and as available as gas stations, I'd want to see 400 miles of highway range in the winter with the heat on. That's enough that I'd never need to stop for a charge before I'd be stopping for more than 5 minutes anyway.
Can you quantify "fairly quick"?
I'm not sure I have an ICE that'll do 400 miles on a tank. Maybe the M5 because it has a huge tank. Interestingly, Mazda put a small tank in the ND Miata because it's so efficient. I'd say it has a realistic 325-350 miles of range.
Keith Tanner said:Curious Rob - what do you think the tipping point is for range? Is it one of those "just another 10%" things that's a moving target, or do you have a number in mind? How about charging speed - how fast do you need to be able to add range for it to be convenient?
I wrote this a couple of times trying to answer. Maybe this is the easiest way:
The biggest barriers are faster charging and charging spots in my opinion. Faster charging means more people buying EV's, warranting more stations, but you need more stations for people to buy more EV's so they can charge them. It's a conundrum. If someone came out with an equivalent priced EV that can be charged pratically anywhere and quickly, that would be inflection point.
There's a LOT more to it than the above, but I didn't want to bore everyone with a book. I will say that for the first time in my life, I'm considering a hybrid as a new car. When Honda came out with the new Insight, it really caught my eye. It's not overly priced and looks like a normal car.
-Rob
Keith Tanner said:Can you quantify "fairly quick"?
I'm not sure I have an ICE that'll do 400 miles on a tank. Maybe the M5 because it has a huge tank. Interestingly, Mazda put a small tank in the ND Miata because it's so efficient. I'd say it has a realistic 325-350 miles of range.
Fairly quick would be 200+ miles of range in 10 - 15 minutes I think. As in, not much slower than fueling up an ICE car. As far as ICE car range goes, with a 22.5 gal tank, my E38 is good for an easy 400 miles on the highway with a comfortable reserve. For an EV, the faster it charges and the more available charging stations are, the less range matters. If it's got a bunch of range, then we can skip the technical hurdles of making it charge quickly without beating up the batteries, etc. as I'd never need it to charge all that fast.
The desired range will be all over the place. Ask someone who walks to work and you'll get one answer; ask another who drives 1000 a week and you'll get another. From a manufacturing perspective, the answer will be whatever range makes the car sufficiently profitable - there's the real answer.
FYI, the latest Superchargers can pump in about 15 miles/minute. So that's 225 miles in 15 minutes. I expect the latest Electrify America stations aren't far off.
Anyone know if the Ford will be associated with a specific charging network the way that Porsche (EA) or Tesla (Superchargers) are? Will Ford work to expand the charging network or will they count on the existing Level 2 stuff?
kb58 said:The desired range will be all over the place. Ask someone who walks to work and you'll get one answer; ask another who drives 1000 a week and you'll get another. From a manufacturing standpoint, the answer will be whatever range makes the car sufficiently profitable - there's the real answer.
I'm wondering what rules people are setting for themselves. They don't need to be grounded in reality :) Based on a sample set of 2, it's more about the difficulty (perceived or otherwise) in recharging on a road trip than anything else.
kb58 said:The desired range will be all over the place. Ask someone who walks to work and you'll get one answer; ask another who drives 1000 a week and you'll get another. From a manufacturing perspective, the answer will be whatever range makes the car sufficiently profitable - there's the real answer.
This is a good point. If an EV is to replace my DD duties but not trips, etc. then somewhere with 50 - 100 miles of cold weather range would be enough.
If people start considering it legitimate to rent a long range vehicle for trips (ICE or EV) the way that they are willing to rent a hotel room for visiting family, range expectations will drop. But it is a mindset that will be hard to change.
Keith Tanner said:FYI, the latest Superchargers can pump in about 15 miles/minute. So that's 225 miles in 15 minutes. I expect the latest Electrify America stations aren't far off.
Anyone know if the Ford will be associated with a specific charging network the way that Porsche (EA) or Tesla (Superchargers) are? Will Ford work to expand the charging network or will they count on the existing Level 2 stuff?
Kind of off topic, but this got me thinking about "actual range." If I ordered a Tesla Model 3 Performance, 310 mile range. However, everything says the car wants to keep the batteries between 80% and 20% for longevitiy.
So is the 310 mile range assuming lets say 100% battery down to 5%?
Because I was thinking if that's the case, it seems a bit sheisty to advertise that, when the car only wants you to use 60% of that capacity. Staying within those parameters on the battery, drops the range to ~186.
A coworker who doesn't know much about cars was talking to me about EVs.
She brought up her concern of,"What if I road trip?!" Just rent a gas car. Or map your route based on superchargers.
Then it was, "What if I get stuck in a blizzard?!" Same thing that'd happen if you were in an ICE car?
I've come to realize that the "general" public still really has no idea what newer EVs are capable of.
Keith Tanner said:If people start considering it legitimate to rent a long range vehicle for trips (ICE or EV) the way that they are willing to rent a hotel room for visiting family, range expectations will drop.
Sure, for a trip, that might make sense. But, now you're asking me to spend more $$ for an EV than a regular car AND have the added expense of renting a car for a trip. Why not just buy a car that runs on gas (or hybrid) that does it all?
There are a BUNCH of factors that will need to be resolved for EV's to overtake an ICE. I'm NOT against EV's, they just have a way to go to overtake fuel.
-Rob
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