Amazon orders 100k electric vans from Rivian

GIRTHQUAKE said:

Adrian_Thompson said:

In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :

Or is approaching the whole industry in the right manner, plus good technology.  

Perhaps. There's FAR more production for lithium and electronics than in 2012 with the first Model S and lord knows what new technologies they have.

But it still bears the same question of "Hows a brand-new company going to do this?" I wonder if they already have a plant lined up for purchase, or already have OEM production of parts and service being set up...

They already have a plant - they bought the old Mitsubishi plant in Normal, IL and all its contents in 2017. 

mtn said:

GIRTHQUAKE said:

Adrian_Thompson said:

In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :

Or is approaching the whole industry in the right manner, plus good technology.  

Perhaps. There's FAR more production for lithium and electronics than in 2012 with the first Model S and lord knows what new technologies they have.

But it still bears the same question of "Hows a brand-new company going to do this?" I wonder if they already have a plant lined up for purchase, or already have OEM production of parts and service being set up...

They already have a plant - they bought the old Mitsubishi plant in Normal, IL and all its contents in 2017. 

Oh damn! And are they using GM/Ford as a source of OEM parts?

GIRTHQUAKE said:

mtn said:

GIRTHQUAKE said:

Adrian_Thompson said:

In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :

Or is approaching the whole industry in the right manner, plus good technology.  

Perhaps. There's FAR more production for lithium and electronics than in 2012 with the first Model S and lord knows what new technologies they have.

But it still bears the same question of "Hows a brand-new company going to do this?" I wonder if they already have a plant lined up for purchase, or already have OEM production of parts and service being set up...

They already have a plant - they bought the old Mitsubishi plant in Normal, IL and all its contents in 2017. 

Oh damn! And are they using GM/Ford as a source of OEM parts?

Why would they NEED to do that?  I mean, it seems like Ford outsources some/most of the niggly bits to Bosch (and I note with disgust that the horrid old ATE brake calipers are now labeled Bosch) ad GM is... well..  are they even relevant anymore?

GM is... well..  are they even relevant anymore?

You mean the company that sold 3 million vehicles last year? Imma say yes. 

Knurled. said:

GIRTHQUAKE said:

mtn said:

GIRTHQUAKE said:

Adrian_Thompson said:

In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :

Or is approaching the whole industry in the right manner, plus good technology.  

Perhaps. There's FAR more production for lithium and electronics than in 2012 with the first Model S and lord knows what new technologies they have.

But it still bears the same question of "Hows a brand-new company going to do this?" I wonder if they already have a plant lined up for purchase, or already have OEM production of parts and service being set up...

They already have a plant - they bought the old Mitsubishi plant in Normal, IL and all its contents in 2017. 

Oh damn! And are they using GM/Ford as a source of OEM parts?

Why would they NEED to do that?  I mean, it seems like Ford outsources some/most of the niggly bits to Bosch (and I note with disgust that the horrid old ATE brake calipers are now labeled Bosch) ad GM is... well..  are they even relevant anymore?

Because it's a quick and easy source of parts that you don't have to build. Starting a deal for say, Ford ball joints for your electro-truck with clear tolerances and known engineering could be far cheaper than making them yourself, and could save a company years of time in the process.

I know it's not the best idea- just ask AMC- but for a brand-new company?

This is amazing

GIRTHQUAKE said:Because it's a quick and easy source of parts that you don't have to build. Starting a deal for say, Ford ball joints for your electro-truck with clear tolerances and known engineering could be far cheaper than making them yourself, and could save a company years of time in the process.

I know it's not the best idea- just ask AMC- but for a brand-new company?

But... Ford's not doing that in house either, to the best of my knowledge.  They're outsourcing a lot of that stuff, if not all.  I have "heard" stories from people whose job it is to bid out for major subcomponents to the Big Three, some of my friends work for companies that do contracted engineering/testing for Ford, etc.   I don't want to say much more because I might not should have heard things, and I don't know if there are any NDAs involved.

(This is where the "too big to be allowed to fail" idea comes in to play.  The Big 3 represent an entire sub-economy, contracting out to dozens/hundreds of different companies.  If they die, those other companies die with them.  And it gets worse... for instance, the last of the Econolines used the same asinine brake calipers as a Nissan full size van. The same company that makes interior parts for GM, makes them for BMWs built in the US.  It affects everybody, like a spider web.  If those suppliers have to raise their prices... maybe it becomes cheaper to make BMWs and Nissans in the home country again)

Now, being able to leverage a better deal with TRW or Bosch or Motorola, that I can see.

All my Amazon orders come to my house via USPS or UPS. I’d like to know Amazon’s plans for these vans. I suspect they will introduce them first in large metro areas. 

How long until we see an official concept van? I wonder if it will share some of the design language of the truck. 

We have amazon vans here in Jacksonville.  They are a cool grey color with a blue logo.  I will snap a picture of one next time I see one.

T.J. said:

All my Amazon orders come to my house via USPS or UPS. I’d like to know Amazon’s plans for these vans. I suspect they will introduce them first in large metro areas. 

How long until we see an official concept van? I wonder if it will share some of the design language of the truck. 

Last mile. Taking UPS and USPS out of the equation. They'll have their own delivery drivers and own delivery vans. As mentioned above by pimpm3, they already have their own vans.

Has anyone seen the actual figure Amazon is investing? The headline is "Amazon leads a $700M investment in Rivian" which indicates there are other investors putting in cash.  In a minimal amount of digging, I haven't been able to find the exact breakdown of how much each investor is putting in.

In auto production terms, 100K vehicles isn't really that many - especially over 4 years.  Tesla is currently on pace to produce around 300K Model 3s in 2019 alone after less than 3 years of production.  

Amazon is trying to get independent operators to buy into a fleet of Amazon logoed vans

https://logistics.amazon.com/marketing/opportunity

The initial profit proposition does not look that strong.  Seems like an Uber-style, low wage, type proposition.  

They are hyping $300k per year owner profits but that number seems to imply 40 vans on the road.  

$300k / 40 vans = $7,500 profit per van, per year.  That seems pretty thin.  I am also guessing they are figuring best case so maybe just $5,000 per van per year.  Maybe just $2,000 per year.  

We have lots of Amazon vans. Like most of them since they are building a lot of them at the Mercedes plant in Charleston. 

Bad news for us. These are awaiting delivery. 

In reply to John Welsh :

profits will be thin.... metrics on your perfromance will be many.  Any issue.. it's your problem... They will deny eveyrthing..  They're dog eat dog.. Expect them to switch to another DSP(Designated Service Povider) at any minute.

Ian F said:

Has anyone seen the actual figure Amazon is investing? The headline is "Amazon leads a $700M investment in Rivian" which indicates there are other investors putting in cash.  In a minimal amount of digging, I haven't been able to find the exact breakdown of how much each investor is putting in.

 

 $700M from Amazon

$350M From Cox Automotive (Aka Manheim, Autotrader, KBB)

$500M from Ford

when you are dealing with Amazon , your profits are always going to be thin , the same with Walmart.

Around here we have plain white vans delivering packages , I wonder if each city wants a business permit for each delivery van ?

In reply to mtn :

Again - that headline is misleading:

The online retail giant is leading a $700 million investment in Rivian, a Michigan company that is developing a battery-powered pickup truck and an electric sport utility vehicle. The automaker announced the new round of investment on Friday, offering few details but saying it would remain independent.

It does NOT say Amazon is investing $700M into Rivian.

Someone asked a bit ago what the major challenges are for EV's right now. Battery capacity is obviously the elephant in the room. Another is supplying components that are compatible with higher voltages. Higher voltages mean shorter charging times, but most vehicles are operating around 350-400V right now. There isn't a lot of competition in the 800V range right now, so you're stuck picking between maybe one or two options for your high voltage components (air conditioning, power steering, air compressor for heavy vehicles, etc.). Even on the motor/inverter side, if you're not developing them in house, you only have a couple options available. As far as I know, Proterra is the only company with an 800V vehicle out on the road right now. The Taycan may be the second.

In reply to californiamilleghia :

If you are in California that provider is called on track. 

pimpm3 said:

We have amazon vans here in Jacksonville.  They are a cool grey color with a blue logo.  I will snap a picture of one next time I see one.

Same here. They are all over the place.