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Ian F
Ian F PowerDork
1/21/13 12:37 p.m.

In reply to SVreX:

I was at a friends house and that is what he did to get extra height for his 4-post lift. The one part that was a bit interesting was how the contractor angled the garage door track and opener so it was parallel with the slope of the rafters and roof.

In theory I could do that with my garage, but I don't want to give up the space in my attic. Plus, the slope of my roof is such that I still wouldn't gain enough ceiling hieght to use a full-height lift.

DrBoost
DrBoost PowerDork
1/21/13 1:55 p.m.

I'm not sure if I can do that. I have, what I think is called a hip roof? The roof is a pyramid shape, not a triangle. I'll have to go look at the ceiling again, but the good thing is, I don't have drywall up there.
Thanks for the detailed explanation SVRex, but by the second paragraph I was lost. I'll read it again in a while and see if it sinks in any better.

DrBoost
DrBoost PowerDork
1/21/13 1:57 p.m.
logdog wrote: Here ya go! http://detroit.craigslist.org/mcb/tls/3555958581.html

Yeah, I saw that one. It looks like the aliens have landed?

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
1/21/13 2:07 p.m.
Ian F wrote: In theory I could do that with my garage, but I don't want to give up the space in my attic. Plus, the slope of my roof is such that I still wouldn't gain enough ceiling hieght to use a full-height lift.

Not wanting to give up the attic space is legit.

The roof pitch might not a problem, depending on the car, length, and distance from the outside wall.

My lift sits at 72" off the floor when fully raised. So, If I put a Suburban on top of it, the roof is about 11' high when fully raised. My Rabbit is more like 10'.

If the garage ceiling is 9', and the roof of the car is 3' away from the wall when parked, if the roof pitch is 6:12, the potential height at the back of the roof of the car would be 10'-6". So, I'd have enough room for a Rabbit, and enough for a Suburban, if I put stops on the lift limiting it's height to 66".

It's entirely about the math. The existing ceiling height, plus the pitch of the roof times the run (which varies depending on the length of the car and the garage), plus the height of the car. It will work in most cases, but you've got to do the math first.

Dashpot
Dashpot Reader
1/21/13 2:10 p.m.

Another vote for Maxjax here.

I leave 1 post up full time and roll the other into position when needed. The pump dolley & 2nd post store against the wall when not in use. Takes 10 minutes to set up. It's been up & down ~50 times in the last few years with no noticable wear on the supplied anchors or floor slab around it.

Worth it's weight in Ibuprofin.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
1/21/13 2:12 p.m.
DrBoost wrote: I'm not sure if I can do that. I have, what I think is called a hip roof? The roof is a pyramid shape, not a triangle. I'll have to go look at the ceiling again, but the good thing is, I don't have drywall up there. Thanks for the detailed explanation SVRex, but by the second paragraph I was lost. I'll read it again in a while and see if it sinks in any better.

Sorry. Trust the pictures.

I tried to say that without technical construction language. Didn't come out so well.

The hip roof adds math side to side, in addition to the calculations necessary front to back.

Still might work. Cars are kind of pyramid shaped too. Picture a car shape nesting up into a pyramid.

Depends on the car, the height needed, and the actual measurements of the garage.

If you send me some actual dimensions and pictures of the car and the garage, I can tell you whether it will work.

dculberson
dculberson SuperDork
1/21/13 3:00 p.m.

SVreX, I didn't even think of what you detailed there. That's an excellent idea. My current garage, it might not help too much, because the pitch is something like 3:12 or 4:12, but at some point I'll get up there with a measuring tape and see what it would net me. I just thought the only way around it was to end up replacing the roof and you showed me another way. That's great.

DrBoost
DrBoost PowerDork
1/21/13 3:03 p.m.
SVreX wrote:
DrBoost wrote: I'm not sure if I can do that. I have, what I think is called a hip roof? The roof is a pyramid shape, not a triangle. I'll have to go look at the ceiling again, but the good thing is, I don't have drywall up there. Thanks for the detailed explanation SVRex, but by the second paragraph I was lost. I'll read it again in a while and see if it sinks in any better.
Sorry. Trust the pictures. I tried to say that without technical construction language. Didn't come out so well. The hip roof adds math side to side, in addition to the calculations necessary front to back. Still might work. Cars are kind of pyramid shaped too. Picture a car shape nesting up into a pyramid. Depends on the car, the height needed, and the actual measurements of the garage. If you send me some actual dimensions and pictures of the car and the garage, I can tell you whether it will work.

Thanks Paul. I'll see if I can get some pics and numbers in the next few days.
I wondered about the concrete since some hoists talk about needing 3000 psi pour. How can I test my floor? I know I can drill down and see hot thick is it, but what about the 3000 psi thing?
I was glad someone mentioned cutting a few 2' squares out, drilling the existing slab for rebar, then pouring in good stuff. I thought about that, but I didn't know if that was my hack mechanic side coming out.

docwyte
docwyte HalfDork
1/21/13 3:07 p.m.

I have plenty of space in my center bay (3 car garage) for a full sized lift, but I've held off on getting one. I don't want to have my wife constantly banging her car doors into the posts, my wife and daughter tripping over the arms and finally, having to deal with digging out the floor to get the proper amount of concrete.

I may end up with a max jax or something like it that I can put in the corner when I'm not using it...

cutter67
cutter67 Reader
1/21/13 3:13 p.m.

all i did was make it a cathedral type ceiling. which involved running 2" x 12" runners nailed to the 2" x 6" and at the peak we put in a gusset plate made out of 3/4" plywood at the sill we anchored the 2" x 12"s we also ran some 2"x 4"s across the 2" x 12's tying them in together and ran a post to ridge beam at both ends of garage and then removed the truss braces this was 5 years ago and it has been fine.

Ian F
Ian F PowerDork
1/21/13 3:28 p.m.

In reply to SVreX:

Oh... the other detail I left out is my roof rafters are full-dimension 2x4's about 16' long - with no cross-ties or any other bracing other than a ridge beam. The house was built in the mid 30's during Prohibition on the cheap. I seriously doubt the builders had any dream in the world the house would still be standing almost 80 years later.

nocones
nocones Dork
1/21/13 4:15 p.m.

Only thing about what Paul (SVreX) is suggesting is that if you live in somewhere with rigorous inspections and building codes you will more than likely have to have a PE or Architecture firm with a PE on staff stamp the modification plans for your roof re-do. It is still possible and the methods Paul is talking about are the correct ways to do the modifications.

I know where I am I would be allowed to do that. We do not have those kind of inspections and our building code suprisingly don't cover things like Truss loading and beam design. That said <1mile away from my house things would be drastically different from an inspection and code standpoint so look into this before you commit to a plan.

Gearheadotaku
Gearheadotaku UltraDork
1/21/13 6:37 p.m.

Hip roof can be overcome, of course with more work. Cut the section over the hoist bay and turn it into a standard gable end. At this point its pretty easy to raise your rafter/joist up. This creates an "A" shape instead of a triangle.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
1/21/13 6:53 p.m.
nocones wrote: Only thing about what Paul (SVreX) is suggesting is that if you live in somewhere with rigorous inspections and building codes you will more than likely have to have a PE or Architecture firm with a PE on staff stamp the modification plans for your roof re-do. It is still possible and the methods Paul is talking about are the correct ways to do the modifications. I know where I am I would be allowed to do that. We do not have those kind of inspections and our building code suprisingly don't cover things like Truss loading and beam design. That said <1mile away from my house things would be drastically different from an inspection and code standpoint so look into this before you commit to a plan.

That's true. Some areas require a stamp for virtually anything you pull a permit for.

But that would be made clear when you apply for the permit.

Please note that I did not suggest doing it without a permit.

The simple way around the engineer or architect (usually) is to use LVL or equal for support beams. All manufacturers of engineered trusses and beams have engineers on staff, and their product includes engineered drawings as part of the purchase price. Agree to buy their beams, and their drawings should suffice for code enforcement.

Theoretically, the IBC (International Building Code, which covers the entire country) DOES allow for this type of change. Of course, that assumes the local building inspector can read and understand the span tables and calculations for MOE that are included in the code. That's a big assumption.

Places like CA and NJ want to see somebody's seal of approval on everything anyway, whether or not the code allows it.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
1/21/13 6:59 p.m.
DrBoost wrote: Thanks Paul. I'll see if I can get some pics and numbers in the next few days. I wondered about the concrete since some hoists talk about needing 3000 psi pour. How can I test my floor? I know I can drill down and see hot thick is it, but what about the 3000 psi thing? I was glad someone mentioned cutting a few 2' squares out, drilling the existing slab for rebar, then pouring in good stuff. I thought about that, but I didn't know if that was my hack mechanic side coming out.

If engineering is a concern, I'd certainly be more concerned about how big a hole to cut in the floor than the roof modifications. Soil compaction, type, slump of concrete are all bigger factors than the roof mods.

What I am saying is that 24" may or may not be enough. I would rather have an engineer charge me $150 for a quick footing diagram than risk having a car fall on my head.

3000 psi concrete is standard ready mix compressive strength for footings, floors, etc. If your concrete was poured in 1952, it ain't good enough. No testing required.

DrBoost
DrBoost PowerDork
1/21/13 7:27 p.m.

Dangit man. This is getting more expensive. That $2K lift is going to push 3K isn't it?
Whining aside, I refuse to do it any other way than the right way. I don't want a car falling on my head, nor do I want a roof collapsing.

Ian F
Ian F PowerDork
1/21/13 7:36 p.m.

Well, that was another reason I went with the scissor lift. No real structural concerns. The biggest PITA part was the delivery. The sob weighs about 900 lbs and unlike the more stationery lifts that are delivered in parts, the scissor lift is basically one piece.

Wayslow
Wayslow Reader
1/21/13 8:06 p.m.

I have a two post hoist in my shop. I'm fortunate to have the space, a 12' ceiling and an 8" 3000psi concrete slab.

I really suggest you search for a used commercial grade hoist rather than looking at buying a new unit for $2,000. I looked at a selection of the hoists available for home use and I ended up picking up a used unit from a body shop that was in the process of moving to a smaller shop. As a bonus I paid $500 for it.

Dashpot
Dashpot Reader
1/21/13 8:28 p.m.

Yikes, one arm on that beast must outweigh the Lotus...

logdog
logdog HalfDork
1/21/13 8:30 p.m.

Craigslist around here sucks. Ive never seen a 500 buck hoist!

T.J.
T.J. PowerDork
1/21/13 8:44 p.m.
Dashpot wrote: Yikes, one arm on that beast must outweigh the Lotus...

He just uses one post to lift the Europa.

Raze
Raze SuperDork
1/21/13 8:52 p.m.
T.J. wrote:
Dashpot wrote: Yikes, one arm on that beast must outweigh the Lotus...
He just uses one of his burly arms to lift the Europa.

FTFY

Wayslow
Wayslow Reader
1/21/13 9:18 p.m.

The yellow bit in the left hand corner of the the picture is an Elan.

My "heavy car" is a Spitfire.

fasted58
fasted58 UberDork
1/21/13 9:48 p.m.

I need one... I will have one.... berkeleying tired of pissing around like some yard monkey

stan_d
stan_d Dork
1/21/13 10:03 p.m.

I cut concrete for a few years. Depending where the gravel came from will determine hardness. I have cut some concrete that cut like butter and some that I could only take 1/2 passes. Concrete gets harder with age.

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