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z31maniac
z31maniac UltimaDork
1/10/14 10:10 a.m.

After poking around in the 06-09 4Runners, I'm not iffy on if it's really going to check all my boxes. And in that Gen, the V8 models (in great condition/low miles) command quite a hefty premium. And I'd still likely have to travel to find one.

The first thing I've noticed, to get the 5.7 V8 takes the Limited/Platinum models. These also have 3rd row seating that seems to be removable, so that's good. Does anyone know if the 2nd row seats lay down flat? One of the reasons I want an SUV over a truck is so I can sleep in the back vs having to setup a tent if I had a truck.

BigD
BigD Reader
1/10/14 10:26 a.m.

I wanted one for a long time as an upgrade to my 05 4Runner V8 but I couldn't justify it. For some reason, no one has one. I have no idea why, it's by far and away the best full size SUV you can get. I've test driven one and it's very nice. It's also almost alarmingly fast. The 4Runner is too, and the Seq follows the trend. For some reason, the Lexus models, the pickups with the same driveline, are nowhere near as fast. I think the Seq 0-60 is in the low-mid 6s, my 4Runner is 7 easy. I think it's the gearing, my big bucket will keep up with damn near anything off the line.

All rows fold flat

Basil Exposition
Basil Exposition HalfDork
1/10/14 11:05 a.m.

We looked at these new in '08, the year of introduction. Remember, at the time the world was falling apart and the price of oil was skyrocketing. And Toyota introduced the gigantic, expanded version of the Sequoia into the maw of a dead SUV market. I remember I could also not get squat for my diesel pickup nor our C5 Corvette as a trade-in. Few people were buying sports cars and large vehicles. We eventually ended up with a Highlander at a price that we could have sold it for two years later as used. I kept the diesel truck because it was worth more to me to keep than we could get for it. I'm still driving it. The Corvette we traded in and I know the dealer had a hard time shifting it in that environment. I wish we could have kept it, we could have sold it for more two or three years later.

Toyota sold few Sequoias in '08 and scaled back production, so that's why they are hard to find used and command a premium when you get them. The tsnumami may have affected supply later, as well. And then there was the bad publicity about uncontrolled acceleration. IIRC, we were looking at paying between $30k and $35k for a new one with a bunch of incentives, rebates and discounts. Also at the time the dealer we went to were charging $4k to $5k premiums on Priusesess.

That's about all I know, except that if you want a power tailgate you have to buy the Sport or Limited version and if you want leather seats you have to buy the Limited. There are some Sports out there with leather seats that the dealer has installed, but I think they'll be tough to find.

z31maniac
z31maniac UltimaDork
1/10/14 11:13 a.m.
Basil Exposition wrote: Toyota sold few Sequoias in '08 and scaled back production, so that's why they are hard to find used and command a premium when you get them.

For what you get, the used prices seem reasonable to me. Especially with the 06-09 V8 4Runners typically in low-to-mid 20s for a clean, lower mileage one. Add another $5k to that and you can have a newer, nicer more substantial vehicle with that awesome 5.7 V8.

Only problem is then I'm stuck driving a HUGE vehicle all the time. When I really just want it for road trips and towing.

BigD
BigD Reader
1/10/14 11:22 a.m.

Not much has changed here. I went to a Ram dealer to see about trading in the Gunner for a new Ram. The guy cringed and basically acted like he's just giving me a few grand to sweeten the deal, that my car is worth nothing. He estimated the trade in at 7 grand. I know I know, it's 9 years old but I don't care. I bought it new, any spec of rust was always professionally repainted (entire panel), 5k KM synthetic oil changes, synthetic driveline changes every year or two etc. To me, it's as good as it was new but to the rest of the world it's worth diddly squat and I call BS on that. There's nothing you can buy new for under 30 grand that's as nice as my Gunner.

So, I still have it. And I'm not really sure if I can ever justify getting rid of it. I mean for 7 grand... my racecar brakes were more than that, what the hell. I plan to replace it as a tow mule with a diesel Cayenne in a few years but I still don't know if I would trade it in. Maybe I'll give it to a family member or a close friend or something. Or set it on fire.

And speaking of tow mule, it's really quite exceptional at it. I've towed from Toronto as far as Watkins Glen, with my aluminum enclosed trailer and I was never wanting for more power or thanks to the plug and play brake controller, brakes.

z31maniac
z31maniac UltimaDork
1/10/14 11:40 a.m.

Sell it retail then, I don't see the V8 4Runners below $17k unless they have more than 100k miles on them and/or are base models.

BigD
BigD Reader
1/10/14 11:44 a.m.

I may be unreasonable about it but I absolutely dread the idea of a private car sale. Never done it and probably never will. It doesn't help that I hate people.

ProDarwin
ProDarwin UltraDork
1/10/14 11:55 a.m.
z31maniac wrote: Only problem is then I'm stuck driving a HUGE vehicle all the time. When I really just want it for road trips and towing.

This would be my concern. My dad has a '10 (I think) Tundra. That thing is enormous. Unless I'm doing truck things with it, driving it absolutely sucks.

For truck-things though, its pretty awesome.

z31maniac
z31maniac UltimaDork
1/10/14 11:56 a.m.
BigD wrote: I may be unreasonable about it but I absolutely dread the idea of a private car sale. Never done it and probably never will. It doesn't help that I hate people.

I haven't done it in a long time either, it's such a PITA. If a dealer around here will get realistic on trade-in for the NC....hell I'd likely buy something this weekend.

But I'm glad to know those seats fold down, I think I'll go look at one today after work.

Basil Exposition
Basil Exposition HalfDork
1/10/14 12:18 p.m.

If you have a Carmax around go there first with your trade-in. They'll make you an offer that is good for seven days and you can use that to leverage at the dealer or sell it to Carmax. From personal experience and from talking with used car sales people, Carmax usually will quote a price the dealers can't even match. Carmax prefers lower mileage, newer vehicles, though, so YMMV.

Oh, and I think I was offered $8k for my 5 year old Dodge Ram 2500 Diesel with about 70k miles in 2008. But again, nobody was buying these things at the time and new ones were choking dealers' lots.

I understand your pain. I've sold a couple of cars to private buyers and it is a huge PITA. Though you do get paid well per hour if you look at the difference between trade-in and retail value. In Texas, there is an extra incentive to trade-in, though, because you don't pay sales tax on the difference between the trade-in value and the price of the new vehicle.

z31maniac
z31maniac UltimaDork
1/10/14 12:53 p.m.
ProDarwin wrote:
z31maniac wrote: Only problem is then I'm stuck driving a HUGE vehicle all the time. When I really just want it for road trips and towing.
This would be my concern. My dad has a '10 (I think) Tundra. That thing is *enormous*. Unless I'm doing truck things with it, driving it absolutely sucks. For truck-things though, its pretty awesome.

Yeah, unfortunately that's the way it has to be for me.

evildky
evildky Dork
1/10/14 1:03 p.m.

I have a 2010 Tundra. It likes gas, I see an average of 12.5 mpg, mostly city driving but trouble free.

motomoron
motomoron SuperDork
1/10/14 1:37 p.m.

I bought my '05 4Runner (Sport,V8, 100K) from a major dealer for $14k w/ tax and tags, and it's minty condition w/ a good ownership history (3 year lease then sold CPO) and service records.

The Sport for what it's worth has bigger front rotors - 13.3" - a the "XRES" suspension which hydraulically links the dampers. I drove 4 Sequoias and 1 4Runner and liked the size, handling, performance, vehicle dynamics, aesthetics and absence of "Lexus-ism" of the 4Runner much better than the Sequoia.

z31maniac
z31maniac UltimaDork
1/10/14 1:51 p.m.
motomoron wrote: I bought my '05 4Runner (Sport,V8, 100K) from a major dealer for $14k w/ tax and tags, and it's minty condition w/ a good ownership history (3 year lease then sold CPO) and service records. The Sport for what it's worth has bigger front rotors - 13.3" - a the "XRES" suspension which hydraulically links the dampers. I drove 4 Sequoias and 1 4Runner and liked the size, handling, performance, vehicle dynamics, aesthetics and absence of "Lexus-ism" of the 4Runner much better than the Sequoia.

For some reason in my area it seems prices are higher than surrounding states, and I really have no idea why.

I'm also thinking I'll likely have to rent a trailer for a year or two, and the 4Runner loaded with gear, steel 2000lb+ trailer, 2200lb car, 55-60 Gallons of E85.

Main thing as well, is I would really like one that is "loaded" since I'll be in it everyday, so leather/heated seats, nice factory stereo, etc. Which makes the pickins' more slim.

Basil Exposition
Basil Exposition HalfDork
1/10/14 2:49 p.m.
evildky wrote: I have a 2010 Tundra. It likes gas, I see an average of 12.5 mpg, mostly city driving but trouble free.

Gag. I'm averaging about 25 mpg in my Dodge commuting with no load, mostly stop and go in Houston traffic on the highways. I get about 13 when towing an enclosed trailer. One of the reasons I bought a diesel. It really sucks that Toyota and others sell their SUVs and such with diesels in other countries, but won't bring them here. I guess that's changing, but diesel is already getting expensive because of demand in China and growing demand in Europe, so there's that.

BigD
BigD Reader
1/10/14 2:52 p.m.

That's the only complaint I and most others have with the 4Runner too, the fuel mileage is very poor. I mean, when you consider the fact that it's a shrunken down full size V8 pickup it's not bad. But for a modern midsize SUV it's pretty deplorable. You'd do well to get over 18mpg. The good news is that towing a 2800lb car in an enclosed 2800lb trailer, I get around 12mpg (even roads more like 13, going through the Adirondacks, closer to 11).

z31maniac
z31maniac UltimaDork
1/10/14 3:41 p.m.
Basil Exposition wrote:
evildky wrote: I have a 2010 Tundra. It likes gas, I see an average of 12.5 mpg, mostly city driving but trouble free.
Gag. I'm averaging about 25 mpg in my Dodge commuting with no load, mostly stop and go in Houston traffic on the highways. I get about 13 when towing an enclosed trailer. One of the reasons I bought a diesel. It really sucks that Toyota and others sell their SUVs and such with diesels in other countries, but won't bring them here. I guess that's changing, but diesel is already getting expensive because of demand in China and growing demand in Europe, so there's that.

25mpg in stop and go traffic in a diesel? Did you carry an extra 1 somewhere?

irish44j
irish44j PowerDork
1/10/14 4:17 p.m.

We're looking right now at 08 Sequoias and I've done a ton of research. What do you want to know?

One thing to note is that the SR5 Sequoias were almost always bought with big option packages. Most SR5's I see online for sale have leather, heated seats, and various other features that are standard on the LImited/Platinum.

For us, fuel economy doesn't matter since we'll put under 10k miles on them. That's really the only downside for us, aside from the fact that they're relly big and my wife will be driving most of the time (we're also looking at minivans).

All that said, we currently have a V6 4Runner and it has been more than sufficient for towing an e30 racecar and some gear on long trips on an open-deck trailer. We're only upgrading to get more interior space (2 kids, 2 dogs, wife packs heavy for family trips). Otherwise, 4Runner serves all my purposes, to be honest. It's been a trouble-free vehicle for 5 years (bought new in 08) and we already have a buyer for it at $20k (it has low miles...30k). It's just kind of small inside for a full family. We towed the e30 through the mountains (small mountains) to Pittsburgh and it was like the trailer wasn't even there, except ona few occasions where we got slowed down on long uphills by super-slow traffic. I added a tranny cooler and brake controller.

Note, 4Runner you want the sport Edition. Much better brakes than the SR5/Limited.

Anyhow, will try to tell you all I know about the sequoia if you ask. We don't own one now, but might by the end of the weekend :)

Or we might own a minivan, and a cheap tow rig. Depends on if the wife can deal with driving a big Sequoia.

required tow picture....V6 Sport Edition towing 325i on a 1700-lb open trailer with controller/brakes.

 photo DSCF7735.jpg

evildky
evildky Dork
1/10/14 4:23 p.m.

I get about 11.5 towing my car, on a tandem axle trailer with spares etc. Truck is 5800 lbs unloaded, I figure for such a trip I'm rolling around 10k lbs. The rare occasion that I drive the interstate unloaded I can see the stated 17mpg average but usually if I'm o the interstate i'm towing. For the record my 04 Silverado only weighed 5300 lbs and got about 1 mpg better. I Find it interesting that the Tundra is 6" shorter in overall length, same box, and a larger cab. The difference in length is the between the engine and the radiator. The extra weight is everything on the he Tundra seems overbuilt by comparison.

z31maniac
z31maniac UltimaDork
1/10/14 4:49 p.m.

^Nice!

irish, tell me everything you know! I essentially gather that it's a Tundra but with IRS. I think I've also read the 5.7 (Limited/Platinum only) automatically comes with a tow package in the Sequioa.

Does the 5.7 have the stupid timing belt like 4.7? Are there timing chain issues like tensioners or anything? I've read enough stuff now, that I'm really only considering a Toyota over other makes.

I'm going to go drive some stuff tomorrow, didn't feel like messing it with today after work.

irish44j
irish44j PowerDork
1/10/14 6:02 p.m.
z31maniac wrote: ^Nice! irish, tell me everything you know! I essentially gather that it's a Tundra but with IRS. I think I've also read the 5.7 (Limited/Platinum only) automatically comes with a tow package in the Sequioa. Does the 5.7 have the stupid timing belt like 4.7? Are there timing chain issues like tensioners or anything? I've read enough stuff now, that I'm really only considering a Toyota over other makes. I'm going to go drive some stuff tomorrow, didn't feel like messing it with today after work.

5.7 is timing chain. I did a lot of digging around the Tundra forums and it seems like there is a pretty good amount of people with 150k+ miles on the 5.7 without any notable issues (though I'm sure there are issues here and there, as with any vehicle).

Around here I haven't seen any Sequoias that DON'T have the tow package. Seems to be a pretty standard option for a truck that size, so most dealers probably bought them with it, figuring most buyers buying a car that can tow 10k, probably will want to tow.

Rear suspension is IRS and it supposedly rides better than the Tundra (also gives it the rear floor room to fold the seats flat).

Seems like most of the difference between the SR5 and Limited/Platinum is tthe "power everything" stuff like power folding 3rd row seats (I prefer non-power, one less thing to break), power rear tailgate, etc. But like I said, most SR5s seem to have been originally ordered with Leather, heated seats, and a lot of the standard Limited features. Platinum has more crap than I really want, honestly, so we haven't even really looked at them. Not worth the extra price to me.

Limited/Platinum had optional airbags on the rear suspension for leveling. I don't think that's necessary unless you're towing some serious tongue weight. Even our 4Runner only sat down about 2" in the back with 500lbs on the tongue.

Most of the other differences are more interior bling items for the top models. The SR5 standard features pretty much compare to a 4Runner Limited for the most part. Even a base SR5 is nowhere near a stripper.

Most limited and Platinum have captain's chairs on 2nd row. SR5 has a bench that splits 3 ways. Each section can slide forward and back independently for legroom, cargo room, etc etc. The '10+ has a one-touch 2nd row seat button to pop it forward for getting in 3rd row. Before that I think you have to pull a lever (oh no!)

Other stuff like rearview camera, bumper "sonar" and stuff like that seems to be on a good portion of SR5s and is standard on higher models. I've yet to see a Sequoia without a moonroof (not standard on SR5 but they all have em).

One note is that they all seem to have sucky highway tires. And most used ones have low tread it seems. We plan to get Dueller Revos pretty quick if we get one (we've loved those on our 4Runner). Also I've read that there are sometimes rear camber wear problems, but not sure....can never be sure that it's just not dumb people not keeping enough air in their tires. Most carfax checks to seem to show alignments every 15k miles or so, but that seems pretty standard for any big vehicle.

That's all I can think of right now. There are soem good walk-through reviews on youtube (I like Everymandriver and a few others) that show a lot of the features.

Again, this is all secondhand information since I don't own one (yet, hopefully).

irish44j
irish44j PowerDork
1/10/14 6:07 p.m.

I'll also note that after looking at about 20-25 carfax reports on them, I don't see any evidence of any "usual" repair issues under 100k miles. I think one had its steering rack replaced. Some tire wear issues (see above). but otherwise everything else on those reports seems to be regular maintenance stuff (fluids, wipers, tires, brake pads). They do seem to eat up brake pads, but that's no surprise for a 5700lb vehicle. Hopefully some upgraded pads are available (maybe for Tundra).

HiTempguy
HiTempguy UltraDork
1/10/14 6:07 p.m.
BigD wrote: I may be unreasonable about it but I absolutely dread the idea of a private car sale. Never done it and probably never will. It doesn't help that I hate people.

You are being unreasonable, unless you net over $10k per month and your time is worth more than the crappy deal the dealer is giving you.

I honestly didn't realize people are cool with just giving away thousands of dollars... I'll buy the vehicle from you for $1k above what the dealer offered! I don't even have to see it, I'll show up cash in hand lol.

irish44j
irish44j PowerDork
1/10/14 6:08 p.m.

Also the 5.7 supposedly gets about 1mpg BETTER than the 4.7, even with way more power. Some 08s were available with the 4.7, but I have yet to see one advertised with it. I imagine that anyone spending $60k for a new lux-SUV probably sprung for the better (and more efficient) engine in the first place.

irish44j
irish44j PowerDork
1/10/14 6:12 p.m.

BTW, there seem to be a E36 M3load of these in Texas for great prices. It really pisses me off since they all average about $5k more here in the DC area for the exact same features/miles (since dealers/sellers know that this area has $$$$$). So you're probably in much better shape than I am for finding a good deal, with a much better selection. I just don't want to drive 20 hours to look at one, lol.

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