IHitCones None
5/22/08 4:39 p.m.

Oh wise GRM message board, I autocross an MKIV VW Golf in H Stock, I have been experiencing brake fade and would like to upgrade the brake pads. Which pads are you using on your daily driver/ weekend autox cars? This is my short list : Hawk HPS EBC Green Stuff Satisfied Grand Sport Opinions on this list and an additions are welcome. The car is 100% stock, I use 205/50/15 Kumho MX's for events.

Salanis HalfDork
5/22/08 4:43 p.m.

Hawk HPS on both cars. Although, I'm thinking I maybe should have gone to HP+ on the Miata, since that's going to see a lot of track use. It's seen two track days, with multiple people using it though, and the HPS seem to be doing well.

I've noticed the HPS are on my BMW are cleaner than the pads that had been on there (forget what pads though).

93celicaGT2 New Reader
5/22/08 5:23 p.m.

I use EBC Green when daily driving. They're a huge improvement over stock as far as i've found, seem to resist fade and glazing better.

The not so great: 1) They're loud 2) They dust like CRAZY.

Neither of which you may care about, i know i don't.

For autocross use, i'm planning on using EBC Yellows, which have been tried and proven on my platform with great results, from someone going to them from Porterfield RS4s.

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
5/22/08 5:39 p.m.

Dumb question (maybe), but are you experiencing fluid fade or pad fade?

billy3esq Dork
5/22/08 6:23 p.m.

David's right. If you're going to go to the trouble of upgrading pads, you should make sure that your fluid is up to snuff. I recommend the Valvoline Synthetic. It's cheap, but plenty good for autox or track duty (at least in a light car).

You might even see if replacing/upgrading your fluid helps before you spring for pads. I've never experienced brake fade in an autox, but I've only autocrossed Miatas (and a friends 911 once or twice).

Of the pads you've mentioned, I'd go with the HPS.

iceracer New Reader
5/22/08 7:01 p.m.

I have been using the HPS pads even on track days with no problems. I just bought a set of the HP plus pads because I feel I need something a litle more agressive. I also use the Valvoline Synthetic.

5/22/08 8:27 p.m.

Wow, you must have some impressive courses where you run in order to experience brake fade:omg:

IHitCones None
5/22/08 11:07 p.m.

How can I tell the difference between pad or fluid fade? What currently happens usually in the second or third heavy braking section of the course I'm on the brakes and nothing.

ww Dork
5/23/08 12:11 a.m.

I'm going to suspect it's fluid fade. I've never had "pad" fade on an AutoX even with cheap Napa brand pads. When was the last time you gave the car a good brake bleed?

Upgrade to a good DOT4 synthetic and I would suspect that will take care of the problem.

ProDarwin Dork
5/23/08 6:23 a.m.

I have HPS on my Subaru. Not impressed whatsoever.

I have EBC Redstuff on the Saturn. They rock.

Gearhead_42 HalfDork
5/23/08 6:39 a.m.

Since you wanted opinions, here's mine :nice:

I find that Hawk HPS work very well on my 2400lb street mod car. I will say though that for track day pads I will be upgrading... Most likely to PFC 01 compound. If I can't find those I'll likely go with Ferodo DS2500.

Fluid is of course important, and the Valvoline SynPower is a great commonly available fluid. My street cars run that. The race cars get Ate SuperBlue/Gold alternating each full bleed.

What hasn't been mentioned much is rotors... from my experience a very good blank rotor ( I choose Brembo) is the best option for a street/track type car. If you are doing something like real road racing get that same blank in a slotted form, helps keep unglazed pad material available to improve bite. Modern brake pad compounds do not outgas once properly bedded in, so drilled is good for bling points only...

Why yes, I was a brake engineer in a former life... :grin:

IHitCones New Reader
5/23/08 8:02 a.m.

Thanks for the replies, it looks like a fluid flush is in order before a pad change.

confuZion3 Reader
5/23/08 8:44 a.m.

If you experience fade due to fluid issues, your brake pedal will get spongey. It may go down to the floor with little or no resistance. Also, this will NOT get better -- even after you let the car cool.

If you still have regular brake pressure, but the brakes do nothing (like there is some kind of liquid on the rotors that is lubricating them), then you have pad fade. This will get better with cooling.

Hawk HPS FTW. Just get them anyway - they feel great. Then do a complete fluid flush (buy lots of fluid).

CivicSiRacer None
5/23/08 8:55 a.m.

My wife's jetta had brake fade problems until we replaced her fluid. I would go with Castrol Syntec brake fluid or Motul. As for pads I would recommend HPS pads if you plan to wash your wheels alot - they dust ALOT! The HP+ squeal for daily driving and need quite a bit of heat to work well.

billy3esq Dork
5/23/08 4:36 p.m.

Yeah, avoid HP+ unless you're going to track the car. Those are what I use on my track car, and they'd be way too much otherwise. The dusting on the HPS isn't bad by performance brake pad standards. The OE pads on my M3 were much worse. The OE pads on my SVT Focus were about the same to a little worse.

Nashco Dork
5/23/08 6:21 p.m.

I'm not following how you could have fluid fade in only three hard stops...fluid fade is due to the fluid boiling, and a few hard stops in an autocross just isn't enough time to transfer that much heat into the fluid. Even the crappiest of pads aren't going to get fade in a few stops. Assuming you've got decent fluid and the lines are bled, I suspect something is up with your master cylinder or vacuum/booster. Start with bleeding the lines to make sure they're not pure water though. :nice:


cliff95 None
5/26/08 11:14 p.m.
billy3esq wrote: Yeah, avoid HP+ unless you're going to track the car. Those are what I use on my track car, and they'd be way too much otherwise. The dusting on the HPS isn't bad by performance brake pad standards. The OE pads on my M3 were much worse. The OE pads on my SVT Focus were about the same to a little worse.

Autoslalom/street: I'm running the HP+ on the front and HPS on the rear of the neon.

Yes the HP+ are dusty, but they are easy to clean, no issues with dust on the rears HPS. The fronts can be cab like noisy with the perfect amount of heat in them, more or less and they are quiet.

I like em for both the steet and slalom use, anything less and it's not enough pad IMO

5/27/08 12:03 p.m.

I like Carbotech Bobcats. Lots of torque, good modulation, low dust, no noise. They are a little pricey though.

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