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tester (Forum Supporter)
tester (Forum Supporter) Reader
11/27/22 8:19 p.m.

For me, it's the Celica GTS with the 2ZZ. It's a buzzy dentist drill that's slower than grandma's beige Buick unless you drive it like a moron. An early 2000s Honda Civic EX sedan was a much better drive. 

NOHOME
NOHOME MegaDork
11/27/22 9:49 p.m.

Speaking mostly of a new car purchase: Pretty much all of them.

Once past the warranty or lease term, the current crop of "awesome" cars comes with the onus of keeping an iceberg intact in the Sahara. When a body module is worth more than the resale value of a 7 year old car, you lost my interest. Speaking to you Germany.

When the ICE obsoletes the car in 5 years, you lost me as a buyer for a new car. Used maybe, since I have not touched a dial on the radio  of my current car in 10 years. 

I came in on the tail end of the era where, if you bought a Mercedes, or a Rolls or a Bristol, that you had reached a pinnacle where, with dealer maintenance,  you bought a car that would last you a lifetime without bankrupting you.

Thanks to modern manufacturing technology and quality control,  I can buy cheap news with warranties cars that fit "the slow cars fast are fun" needs, but "expensive that provide value" is a very short newsletter that I would not buy into.

"Awesome Cars" are  cars that you can buy without finance, treat like a whore , toss in the bin, and go get another one. And yes I do apologize for that horrible analogy.

 

 

Pete

 

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
11/27/22 10:08 p.m.

In reply to NOHOME :

A lot of the resale value is from people being scared off.

Interesting is that the S60R is the least expensive all wheel drive S60 to buy.  Probably the least expensive all wheel drive Volvo.  People get scared off, even though the only potentially expensive part different from the more common models is the struts.  But the brakes make up for that expense in how much maintenance they don't need, fixed Brembo calipers vs. godawful ATE calipers that require frequent maintenance and occasional replacement.  Heck, I have had the car for 111k miles (it turned 296k this weekend) and haven't touched the rear brakes yet other than taking them apart once to ensure that the pads and pistons move freely, since the all wheel drive is somewhat depedent on the rear brakes in its function.

I open the hood every few thousand miles to change the oil.  I change the tires twice a year.  Aside from that, I just drive the thing...  I bought it at 10% list price when it was only 12 years old.  I think to replace the car with something newer but comparable would be $50k easily.  I can justify repairing the car if need be smiley

dxman92
dxman92 Dork
11/27/22 10:53 p.m.

Only 911s that do anything for me are the rally safari versions.

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
11/28/22 12:27 a.m.

In reply to dxman92 :

I take back just a little about 911. The rally 911 is the only one that comes close to being the one.

wspohn
wspohn SuperDork
11/28/22 10:06 a.m.
ShawnG said:

The Dino is stupid. Who wants to explain to every non-car idiot why their Ferrari has a V6.

There. I said it.

Yeah - when they should know that the Dino wasn't a Ferrari, it was a...Dino. and marketed as such.

ShawnG
ShawnG MegaDork
11/28/22 10:42 a.m.
wspohn said:
ShawnG said:

The Dino is stupid. Who wants to explain to every non-car idiot why their Ferrari has a V6.

There. I said it.

Yeah - when they should know that the Dino wasn't a Ferrari, it was a...Dino. and marketed as such.

It's a FIAT too.

calteg
calteg SuperDork
11/28/22 11:03 a.m.
tester (Forum Supporter) said:

For me, it's the Celica GTS with the 2ZZ. It's a buzzy dentist drill that's slower than grandma's beige Buick unless you drive it like a moron. An early 2000s Honda Civic EX sedan was a much better drive. 

Put the MR2 (particularly the 3rd gen) in there as well. I'm impressed that it's lighter than a miata, but having driven several of them, Toyota just missed the mark everywhere...styling, drivetrain, personality

Duke
Duke MegaDork
11/28/22 11:18 a.m.
wspohn said:
ShawnG said:

The Dino is stupid. Who wants to explain to every non-car idiot why their Ferrari has a V6.

There. I said it.

Yeah - when they should know that the Dino wasn't a Ferrari, it was a...Dino. and marketed as such.

Your average non-car idiot isn't going to give a crap what engine is in that thing that looks like a Ferrari.  They're just going to think it's something exotic.

Now, your rabid Ferrari enthusiasts are going to look down their fartsniffing noses at it, but no one else is going to care.  At all.

 

DjGreggieP
DjGreggieP HalfDork
11/28/22 11:50 a.m.
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:

Minor thread-jack: is there a way to make a Viper sound good? Besides LS swap, I mean.

Turbo's. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I have to jump in as finding the R35 not that great. Sure it's fast, punches above it's weight, but the owners and fanboi's are so.. rabid I just can't stand the car to the point I actively avoid them at meets / shows since I've never seen one come to the track when I've been.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
11/28/22 1:19 p.m.
DjGreggieP said:
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:

Minor thread-jack: is there a way to make a Viper sound good? Besides LS swap, I mean.

Turbo's. 

Getting the engine to run at 9000rpm would be pretty sweet.  Inline fives sound good over 6000 and the Viper exhaust is laid out like two inline fives.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I have to jump in as finding the R35 not that great. Sure it's fast, punches above it's weight, but the owners and fanboi's are so.. rabid I just can't stand the car to the point I actively avoid them at meets / shows since I've never seen one come to the track when I've been.

There are cars above the R35's weight?

Trivia: R35s got good track times in part because of the ultra gummy Michelins that Nissan specified.  Special GTR specific compound.  Well, those tires also fit Vipers, and Viper drivers would get much faster lap times on those tires too.

mr2peak
mr2peak Dork
11/28/22 1:30 p.m.

There are cars above the R35's weight?

Trivia: R35s got good track times in part because of the ultra gummy Michelins that Nissan specified.  Special GTR specific compound.  Well, those tires also fit Vipers, and Viper drivers would get much faster lap times on those tires too.

I would love to read a comparison of modern performance cars tested on a spec tire. PS4S maybe, a decently well rounded tire. And not the OEM compound like BMW specifies, just normal PS4S in an average size and see what the surprises are

JG Pasterjak
JG Pasterjak Production/Art Director
11/28/22 1:51 p.m.

I've been underwhelmed by most of the Ferrari's I've driven. They're gorgeous, but ultimately the driving experience for most of them is filled with excuses and compromise.

I also can't help but to think that we're going to face a nostalgia reckoning at some point for how our love for the past has made heroes out of some truly lousy cars. Like, Buick GNs are cool, but they're still G bodies and G bodies are truly mediocre cars even if we're being generous. So I get that there's nostalgia for them, but let's not kid ourselves into believing that in 35 years these cars inexplicably became beter at being cars.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
11/28/22 2:02 p.m.

Not really. I dig all the supercars. May not like the styling, I'm looking at you Ferrari F50, but I haven't had a chance to drive any of them. 

The fastest things I've ever piloted were on two wheels. Although years ago I drove a friends 10-second fox body, but it was terrible to drive on the street. Awesome on slicks at the strip. 

calteg
calteg SuperDork
11/28/22 2:06 p.m.

Also, most Corvettes. They get progressively better, starting with the C6, but the C5, C6 and C7 are each underwhelming for different reasons.

bmw88rider
bmw88rider UberDork
11/28/22 2:23 p.m.

I actually liked the C7. It was the only corvette I would consider that isn't a 65-67 for a cruiser. 

 

JG, Totally agree. I forgot how bad my old Fox Body was until I bought another one. Rose colored glasses. Hot garbage. 

 

For exotics, ehhh on all of them for me TBH. Over all of them even though I could probably afford one. 

Puddy46
Puddy46 New Reader
11/28/22 2:43 p.m.
calteg said:

Also, most Corvettes. They get progressively better, starting with the C6, but the C5, C6 and C7 are each underwhelming for different reasons.

I'm curious what those different reasons are.  

Mr_Asa
Mr_Asa UltimaDork
11/28/22 2:50 p.m.
wae said:

Maybe it's the fact that they are just so far outside of what my budget could ever dream to be, but Ferraris, Lamborghinis, Mclarens, Paganis, Bugattis, and all those types of cars just don't excite me.  They're neat and all, but I just can't drag myself into being at all interested in them.

By and large, this.  If it crosses the block at Barret Jackson... meh?

dannyp84
dannyp84 Reader
11/28/22 2:51 p.m.

Almost any LS-powered vehicle without boost. Every variant of that engine I've sampled always seemed so lazy to build revs. They're fast because they make power throughout the rev range but they never feel like a willing companion.

E46 M3. I've driven these on both the street and track, very impressive car that immediately feels predictable and forgiving, but somehow also feels too serious. I get this impression from a lot of German cars, though a MK1 Scirocco is some of the most fun I've had behind the wheel at very normal speeds. 

My old IS300, I kept fine tuning it to be a great daily driver that was fun to drive, but the motor never felt as responsive as it should have, it was probably 300 lbs heavier than it needed to be, and the fuel consumption was rough relative to the power it made. To its credit, it was very dependable.

2014 and up WRX. I've driven this car extensively when a friend who owned it borrowed my truck. Awful clutch pedal feel, uncomfortable seats, fast but not necessarily fun. I think it should be renamed "Impreza turbo." 
 

 

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
11/28/22 7:32 p.m.

In reply to JG Pasterjak :

I do not know what magic there is, maybe additional chassis bracing, but the GNs seem to hold up waaaaaaay better than regular G bodies.  Interiors are a lot nicer, too.

Maybe it is because most of them got locked away shortly after purchase, only to be taken out on sunny days, often a quarter mile at a time smiley

IIRC a staggering percentage of GNXs went straight from the dealer lot to storage.  When they came out, musclecars were starting to become valuable and some all original Hemi cars were topping $50k at auction. Not bad for fifteen-twenty year old cars that sold for, what, $6k new?  So a bunch of people saw investment dollarsigns.

 

(A Hemi somethingorother was the first musclecar to top $1 million)

 

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
11/28/22 7:37 p.m.
Duke said:
wspohn said:
ShawnG said:

The Dino is stupid. Who wants to explain to every non-car idiot why their Ferrari has a V6.

There. I said it.

Yeah - when they should know that the Dino wasn't a Ferrari, it was a...Dino. and marketed as such.

Your average non-car idiot isn't going to give a crap what engine is in that thing that looks like a Ferrari.  They're just going to think it's something exotic.

Now, your rabid Ferrari enthusiasts are going to look down their fartsniffing noses at it, but no one else is going to care.  At all.

 

They hated the 308 when it was new because it had a V8, and in the wrong place.  Real Ferraris had V12s up front.

Purple Frog (Forum Supporter)
Purple Frog (Forum Supporter) Dork
11/28/22 7:57 p.m.

I have noticed a trend recently viewing all the TV auctions.   The seriously heavily modified "pro-touring" versions of muscle cars pull more money than the original stock versions.  Me thinks people like the styling, but want the modern chassis, EFI, good brakes and handling, bright headlights, cold A/C, etc.,etc.

j_tso
j_tso HalfDork
11/28/22 8:52 p.m.
CrustyRedXpress said:

The NSX had styling issues half way though the design phase. Old man Honda wanted the engine changed to a DOHC w/vtec and they had to lengthen the rear by something like 2". 

They're boring on the street, somewhat by design. The gearing is just really tall and lots of work went into things like reducing NHV.

When it was launched everybody was impressed that low-speed driving was equivalent to an Accord. But it's 2022 and who wants to drive a early 90's Accord every day? 

Wasn't that a selling point? The NSX was supposed to be the first "everyday supercar". Before that people just accepted an exotic would break down and the interior would fall apart.

BlueInGreen - Jon
BlueInGreen - Jon UltraDork
11/28/22 8:59 p.m.
CrustyRedXpress said: ...who wants to drive a early 90's Accord every day?

Um, I would. 

NickD
NickD MegaDork
11/28/22 9:15 p.m.
DjGreggieP said:
AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:

Minor thread-jack: is there a way to make a Viper sound good? Besides LS swap, I mean.

Turbo's. 

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I have to jump in as finding the R35 not that great. Sure it's fast, punches above it's weight, but the owners and fanboi's are so.. rabid I just can't stand the car to the point I actively avoid them at meets / shows since I've never seen one come to the track when I've been.

There are also all the weird-ass records that R35 GT-R guys pride themselves on, like "fastest stock-location turbos"

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