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pinchvalve (Forum Supporter)
pinchvalve (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
11/28/22 9:30 p.m.

Modern Ferraris - The specials are plain ugly, the top-level models are overpriced, big, heavy and kinda ugly, the 296 is the only decent-looking model (and by decent, I mean drop-dead sexy) but the whole Ferrari "mystique" can suck it. I'd rather have two 911s or two Huricans for my money. 

 

 

GTwannaB
GTwannaB Dork
11/28/22 9:32 p.m.

I will go McLaren. Mehclaren for me. No I never drove one, can't afford one but something about feels so sterile and antiseptic. They have these huge announcements about a new version and it looks exactly the amazing new car they announced two weeks ago. So much hype, so much technology, no apparent soul. I feel the same wa about Teslas. 

Purple Frog (Forum Supporter)
Purple Frog (Forum Supporter) Dork
11/28/22 9:46 p.m.

Curious thing happened recently that says something... not exactly sure what.

I went to an event where there were a LOT of cars on display.  Since the outlaw bug is mid-engined I was parked among a collection of Lambos, Ferraris, Maclarens, and such.   It seemed like most of the time the bug was surrounded by folks looking it over and asking questions, while the "new car lot" was basically ignored.   One of the huge bucks car owners walked up to me in his very clean white Nikes and commented on the lack of attention his car was getting as compared to my rust bucket.    ... I offered to trade titles.

Toyman!
Toyman! MegaDork
11/28/22 10:19 p.m.

All the modern super cars leave me cold. 

Give me something quirky and different any day over new and insanely priced. 

 

CrustyRedXpress
CrustyRedXpress Dork
11/28/22 10:47 p.m.
j_tso said:
CrustyRedXpress said:

When it was launched everybody was impressed that low-speed driving was equivalent to an Accord. But it's 2022 and who wants to drive a early 90's Accord every day? 

Wasn't that a selling point? The NSX was supposed to be the first "everyday supercar". Before that people just accepted an exotic would break down and the interior would fall apart.

Yep, and it's still great at that all these years later. But the combination of tall gearing, quiet exhaust, and general lack of drama make the street driving experience kinda meh for an exotic. Those things also make them really easy and non fatiguing to drive, so people end up racking up huge mileage with them. The interior ergonomics are great, the sitelines are fantastic, materials are really nice, but all this translates into extreme competence and reliability and not excitement...which was mostly what the designers wanted I think.

People who track them seem really happy so I assume magic happens when they get pushed hard.

ShawnG
ShawnG MegaDork
11/28/22 11:26 p.m.

Teslas look like a medical appliance. Even worse when they're white.

rslifkin
rslifkin UberDork
11/29/22 8:49 a.m.
ShawnG said:

Teslas look like a medical appliance. Even worse when they're white.

The one that really does me in is the model Y.  If you look at it from just the right front quarter view, it looks like it was drawn by a children's cartoon artist. 

Datsun310Guy
Datsun310Guy MegaDork
11/29/22 9:04 a.m.
ShawnG said:

Teslas look like a medical appliance. Even worse when they're white.

Sometimes I see a white gym shoe.

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
11/29/22 9:58 a.m.

Of ones I have driven honestly can't think of a single American car I have enjoyed driving including Cobalt SS, Mustangs of various years, modern V8 Challenger, some misc Camaros. Also Teslas.

Of things I haven't driven modern Ferraris just don't interest me.

 

Sonic
Sonic UberDork
11/29/22 10:35 a.m.
CrustyRedXpress said:
j_tso said:
CrustyRedXpress said:

When it was launched everybody was impressed that low-speed driving was equivalent to an Accord. But it's 2022 and who wants to drive a early 90's Accord every day? 

Wasn't that a selling point? The NSX was supposed to be the first "everyday supercar". Before that people just accepted an exotic would break down and the interior would fall apart.

Yep, and it's still great at that all these years later. But the combination of tall gearing, quiet exhaust, and general lack of drama make the street driving experience kinda meh for an exotic. Those things also make them really easy and non fatiguing to drive, so people end up racking up huge mileage with them. The interior ergonomics are great, the sitelines are fantastic, materials are really nice, but all this translates into extreme competence and reliability and not excitement...which was mostly what the designers wanted I think.

People who track them seem really happy so I assume magic happens when they get pushed hard.

Yup, it does.  The steering that seems a little slow on the street suddenly makes perfect sense to perfectly place the car on track, you are always on the big cam so it has lots of power, the suspension moves in just the right ways to be pretty neutral and predictable.  Putting an exhaust and springs/shocks on mine increased the drama a little bit to just the right level.  To me it has the perfect analog tactile feel from all of the controls that make you feel like part of the road, in contrast to something like my Escalade that just oppresses the road into submission.  
 

To actually answer the question at hand: Subarus.  They all seem crappy, don't drive very well, awful interiors, motors are a consumable, etc.  Even WRXs I've driven were just totally uninspiring and I don't get the "love".  There are other cars that are good in the snow too. 

Toyman!
Toyman! MegaDork
11/29/22 10:47 a.m.
ShawnG said:

Teslas look like a medical appliance. Even worse when they're white.

It's not the cars as much as it is the owners. They seriously want everyone to love their car and they just won't stop.

The problem is, due to Keith's informative thread about his, I know more about their car than most of them do. I don't want to hear about your cult, I mean car. 

 

gearheadE30
gearheadE30 Dork
11/29/22 12:23 p.m.

I'll go with all the Subarus I've driven (forester XT, a few generations of STi, my SVX, and a Legacy wagon). With the exception of my SVX, they all felt remarkably cheap. I think they all had aftermarket shifters, which were universally notchy and frustrating, and the cars just generally didn't meet the expectation of them that I had in my head. I guess I didn't expect them to feel so much like an economy car + boost.

E30 M3 on the street was also a little bit of a bummer. I have several E30s and in general a 325is is a much better street car. I've never driven an E30 M3 on the track, but I can imagine they would shine there where they wouldn't feel so torqueless.

Drove a few double wishbone Civics with interesting engine swaps and never really felt the draw of them, though I tried not to disappoint their very enthusiastic owners. Very similar feeling to the Subarus, except at least I expected them to be rattly and loud.

Only Miatas I've driven or autocrossed are NAs. Disappointing because I don't fit, and I couldn't help but feel that my E30 318is was everything I expected the Miata to be, plus some practicality. I was expecting them to be a bit more of a revelation, instead it removed a car from my "look for on Marketplace" list.

I'm really hoping that my 944 doesn't disappoint me when I'm done building it, considering how long I've been wanting one....

Objectively, new cars are generally awesome, but I've not met any that really pulled me in as a complete package. Add me to the list of people who prefers to drive a nice example of an average '90s-2000s car.

Tom1200
Tom1200 UberDork
11/29/22 3:55 p.m.
gearheadE30 said:

I'll go with all the Subarus I've driven (forester XT, a few generations of STi, my SVX, and a Legacy wagon). With the exception of my SVX, they all felt remarkably cheap. I think they all had aftermarket shifters, which were universally notchy and frustrating, and the cars just generally didn't meet the expectation of them that I had in my head. I guess I didn't expect them to feel so much like an economy car + boost.

We've owned 2 Outbacks; we've had the current one for 8 years.  It's perfect for what I need; it drives like a car, you can have fun with it on a curvy road (mine is a manual) it hauls race car stuff to my buddies shop and will go down sand washes and other soft roading adventures.  At the end of the day they are still a sort of weird Japanese Volvo.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
11/29/22 6:02 p.m.

In reply to Tom1200 :

As a former owner of Subarus (technically three, an '88 GL, an '85 RX, and an '03 WRX) and a serial owner of Volvos ('02 S40, '06 S60R), ouch.

Very good engineering in the Subarus.  Poor materials but good engineers.

buzzboy
buzzboy SuperDork
11/29/22 6:37 p.m.

We had a 2004 5spd Forester with the 2.5 SOHC. Mom put 100k on it, then I put another 50k on it before selling. It's still a fantastic appliance in my eyes. Drove fine, very roomy, nice controls, but "hey subaru, stop selling AWD cars to everybody" and let us get some more MPG. I think I got it up to 30mpg once at 45mph in cruise control with a tail wind.

 

Good engineers? The whole car is built around a big compromise, which is silly adherance to the Flat4 AWD setup. No, your SUV does not benefit from a Flat4, it only makes it harder to work on and less reliable(see previous comment about keeping the oil in).

Tom1200
Tom1200 UberDork
11/29/22 6:56 p.m.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:

In reply to Tom1200 :

As a former owner of Subarus (technically three, an '88 GL, an '85 RX, and an '03 WRX) and a serial owner of Volvos ('02 S40, '06 S60R), ouch.

Very good engineering in the Subarus.  Poor materials but good engineers.

As the owner of a 142E and a 144 Subarus do remind me of those.......lots of small features you may love or may loathe at the same time.

Now note I did say "sort of" and also said "weird"

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
11/29/22 7:29 p.m.

In reply to Tom1200 :

I like how having room under the hood for a spare tire meant there was a huge amount of interior room for a car that small.  I fit a 42" projection TV in my '88 by merely folding the rear seats down.  I did have to remove my 15" subs though.

15" subs in a small wagon is a mite excessive smiley It amused me that the speakers were two inches larger than the wheels.

 

The TV worked great except for the sound, but that means nothing to someone with a house full of audio equipment.

gearheadE30
gearheadE30 Dork
11/30/22 8:48 a.m.

Sounds like maybe I should give Subaru another chance and drive some that haven't been so modified/are in better shape. I really enjoyed my SVX, though I definitely wouldn't say the engineering was exceptional and I agree that materials tended to be subpar. Specifically bolts made of cheese, and interior plastics.

The Volvo comparison made me laugh, because the 245 (1991 I think? SE NA automatic) drove as a shop car a bit and the 740 my friend owned was another pair of cars that I expected a lot more out of given the internet reputation. I still want to experience a turbo/intercooled model to see if three pedals or adequate amounts of power make it better, but that experience generally crossed those off my list as well and I ended up buying my box caprice wagon instead, followed by an E34 525iT, both of which I enjoyed far more.

rslifkin
rslifkin UberDork
11/30/22 8:55 a.m.

In reply to gearheadE30 :

More power definitely makes the Volvos more entertaining.  Stiffer suspension does a lot too.  A friend of mine had a 740 and 760 turbo wagon pair at one point.  The 760 was basically stock, the 740 had some power mods and suspension work.  The 760 wasn't bad to drive, but the 740 was an absolute riot when you started ripping on it (although an LSD or some suspension work to keep the inside rear in better contact with the ground would have made it better). 

earlybroncoguy1
earlybroncoguy1 Reader
11/30/22 12:45 p.m.

Vipers. The original roadsters - sure, they're fast, but the looks never did it for me, or the sound of the V10.

C8 Corvettes. The proportions are just....off. They look like a cheap Chinese knockoff of a Ferrari. The massive side scoop is hideous, and the wall between the seats is ridiculous. Plus, how did they manage to make an LS V8 sound so meh?

 

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
11/30/22 1:29 p.m.

In reply to earlybroncoguy1 :

New Ferraris also look like Chinese knockoffs, don't they?

 

(Vettes have not had LS engines for years, but I know what you mean)

Zindo
Zindo New Reader
11/30/22 2:02 p.m.

Modern Dodge Charger. Kudos to their marketing team because that one is a big hit, but that one is not for me.

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