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Daylan C
Daylan C UltraDork
1/4/19 4:35 p.m.
pres589 (djronnebaum) said:

3rd gen Firebird GTA.  M-20 Muncie.  Rear axle gears deep into the 2's to keep the driveshaft speeds down.  Built a 4.8 with a turbo and aim for ~650 hp at 7k.  

I'm biased but I like this plan. 

pirate
pirate Reader
1/4/19 5:24 p.m.

I would think an obsolete NASCAR road race car would cover the safety and speed requirements. Take your pick Ford, Chevy or Toyota. There are virtually enough obsolete parts available to build a whole car but there are always engines and rollers available. I would think most Cup cars probably are producing in excess of 750 HP are set up for dry sumps and are pretty reliable. I would think it the jump to higher HP would be petty straight forward. 

Cotton
Cotton PowerDork
1/4/19 5:51 p.m.
z31maniac said:
ProDarwin said:
z31maniac said:

Also don't forget, at least for me, I would want SIGNIFICANT safety equipment in a car I was planning on breaking the 200mph barrier with. Cage, halo seat, helmet, etc, etc, would easily eat $5k of that budget. 

This.  I was thinking $10k in safety equip for something capable of doing 200mph in 1/2 mile.

I suspect you're right that it would be closer to $10k than $5k. I was just thinking at least an 8pt cage, FIA seat, HANS, a fire bottle as a minimum. 

10+ point cage, higher end FIA seat, nets, fire suit, helmet, fire system with nozzles in the cockpit and engine compartment (takes a long time to slow down from that speed if something lets loose and starts a fire).

For the ecta the rules for newer cars up to 185mph is just safely gear for you body...helmet, fire suit, etc.  Car can be stock.  For up to I think 210mph they want a 4 point cage,  5-6 point belts,  and racing seat.  Now this is for 1 mile racing,  so would have to look up the sanctioning body the OP is looking to run 1/2 mile with to get the details.

For bikes,  which is the class I hope to run this year with my tuned k1300s,  they want leathers, gloves, helmet,  and boots.  The bike needs little things like a tethered kill switch, but that’s it.  My bike should be in the 190s before I hit the rev limiter and the safety gear costs are extremely low.  I realize we’re talking apples to oranges here though since the OP is talking 1/2 mile in a car.  I just think his goal is more achievable,  and at lower cost,  if he can find a 1 or 1.5 mile event to run.

eastsideTim
eastsideTim UltraDork
1/4/19 5:52 p.m.
Daylan C said:
pres589 (djronnebaum) said:

3rd gen Firebird GTA.  M-20 Muncie.  Rear axle gears deep into the 2's to keep the driveshaft speeds down.  Built a 4.8 with a turbo and aim for ~650 hp at 7k.  

I'm biased but I like this plan. 

I don’t like 3rd gen Firebirds, but that’s probably the best body to start with.  Already very aerodynamic, and lots of land speed and LS swap knowledge for them out there.  Not to mention you should be able to find a beater fairly cheap, still, so starting cost won’t be too bad, and fabrication work will be minimal(relatively speaking).  With it being a half mile event, you’re going to need significantly more power than a mile or longer course, so going with the third gen cuts cuts down some of the expense and complexity you’d deal with on a lot of other cars.

MrJoshua
MrJoshua UltimaDork
1/4/19 5:57 p.m.

2nd gen RX7 with boosted LS and Ford rear for ratio of choice.

GTXVette
GTXVette SuperDork
1/4/19 6:37 p.m.
80sFast said:

 Vette seems like a good option, but maybe a 996 could get it done.  

With a vette you could do a budget build. the 996 could be done with a Limit build, 

In the 60's a 53 stude with a 400 HP Ford 289 went 200++ at Bonneville

bmw88rider
bmw88rider SuperDork
1/4/19 7:16 p.m.

So to give you an example, an NC Miata with the right gearing can hit 178 with a V8 under the hood in a 1 mile run. That's with minimal aero work. Most of the speed comes in the first 1/2 mile anyway. 

 

This will give you some ideas:

 

http://www.theusmileracing.com/full-results/?event=25

 

You are basically looking at 1000+ HP and great aero to get there in the half. 

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
1/4/19 7:41 p.m.
pres589 (djronnebaum) said:

3rd gen Firebird GTA.  M-20 Muncie.  Rear axle gears deep into the 2's to keep the driveshaft speeds down.  Built a 4.8 with a turbo and aim for ~650 hp at 7k.  

All good, except for the trans.  2.93 with 1:1 top gear and 5500 rpm on 235/60 15s is right around 135 mph, if I recall.  Even if you can find a 2:21, I think an overdrive 5th is a must.

I would also probably go turbo 6.0 or more at a bit lower rpm.

Also, aero.  I know from personal experience an 82 Z28 gets really light at 135mph.

yupididit
yupididit UltraDork
1/4/19 7:59 p.m.

The v10 m5/m6 are 205mph cars right? In what distance? Lol

Half a mile 200mph is awfully fast. Here in texas we have the texas mile twice a year. 

Cotton
Cotton PowerDork
1/4/19 8:03 p.m.
yupididit said:

The v10 m5/m6 are 205mph cars right? In what distance? Lol

Half a mile 200mph is awfully fast. Here in texas we have the texas mile twice a year. 

Are you trying to say we need to meet at the Texas mile with a couple of Benz v12s?  Is that what I’m hearing?

LanEvo
LanEvo HalfDork
1/4/19 8:19 p.m.

GRM solution:

1st generation Honda Insight (cd 0.25) with an LS swap plus nitrous ... or maybe just another Honda engine with a turbo and water injection.

 

yupididit
yupididit UltraDork
1/4/19 8:25 p.m.
Cotton said:
yupididit said:

The v10 m5/m6 are 205mph cars right? In what distance? Lol

Half a mile 200mph is awfully fast. Here in texas we have the texas mile twice a year. 

Are you trying to say we need to meet at the Texas mile with a couple of Benz v12s?  Is that what I’m hearing?

 

I don't see how this shouldn't happen!

Its only a couple hours from me. They have it every March and October. 

I'd really like to get a biturbo s600 upgrade the intercooler, add meth, and get the most powerful tune. Can't see how at least 800hp isn't expected. blush

G_Body_Man
G_Body_Man UltraDork
1/4/19 8:31 p.m.

Old NASCAR roller, junkyard LQ4 and 4L80E, 2.something rear gears, big injectors, stiff valve springs, dual fuel pumps, tunnel ram, nasty cam, eBay 88mm 1.32 AR turbo with a water-to-air intercooler, 200 shot of nitrous and methanol injection just because. Set it up for E85 and let it eat. It may only do it once, but it'll do it.

bearmtnmartin
bearmtnmartin SuperDork
1/4/19 9:07 p.m.
frenchyd said:

In reply to NordicSaab :

A daily driver type of car or a built for racing car?  

Pick up an older Indy car and dump a Chevy V8 in it with a pair of Turbo’s. 

Roger Rager  did it with a 3-4 year old March and a V8 out of a school bus. Actually wound up leading the Indy 500 for a while.   Said he was on the Grid for $20,000

same with a old NASCAR put a cheap LS Engine in with a pair of turbo’s. Might make it under $10,000 

All the Indy cars used to be old school bus motors.

80sFast
80sFast Reader
1/4/19 10:07 p.m.

A z32 300ZX 2+2 with ls1 swap (or not) might be a good choice. Plenty of people going over 200mph on that platform. 

Example:

https://www.google.com/amp/amp.timeinc.net/thedrive/sheetmetal/17228/theres-a-262-mph-nissan-300zx-for-sale-in-japan%3fsource=dam

or maybe a factory five type 65...be cutting it close for 30k

AnthonyGS
AnthonyGS HalfDork
1/4/19 10:31 p.m.

A built twin turbo C5 or C6 with tons of aero.  Not a c5 Z06 it’s less aero.  Getting to 200 in one mile takes serious power.  The only thing under 30k leaving enough money to make that power is the plastic fantastic.  A C4 ZR-1 might have enough too with turbos.  

MrJoshua
MrJoshua UltimaDork
1/4/19 10:33 p.m.

So after the last post I will add a turbo LS swapped 300 or 350z to the list.

frenchyd
frenchyd UltraDork
1/4/19 10:43 p.m.
ProDarwin said:
Ian F said:

Step 1: Find the lightest, most aero body that is easily available.  A Prius or 1st gen Insight comes to mind.

For 1/2 mile testing it may be beneficial to be light, but for bonneville, you heavier is usually better (more stable).  

The Prius or insight probably have a ton of lift, which can get super bad at high speeds.   I'd be careful there.

 

I'd want to minimize CdA, with minimal lift right behind that.

The reason heavy works at Bonneville is because of two reasons.  First traction on salt is very limited compared to asphalt the weight helps to provide traction on a a slippery surface.  Second with between 7-9 miles on the long course in a good year  the weight isn’t a hindrance, aero drag is.  

frenchyd
frenchyd UltraDork
1/4/19 10:50 p.m.

In reply to bearmtnmartin :

Not quite sure about your comment regarding Indy cars.  The offenhauser was a development of the Miller racing Motors. A pure race design if there ever was one.  

Fords 4 cam Indy engines was another pure racing motor.  In fact only rarely were stock block engines ever able to qualify for the Indy 500  even the rare Chevy pushrod motor that wion was a totally clean sheet design sharing absolutely nothing in common with the Chevy small block. 

Jay_W
Jay_W Dork
1/5/19 12:41 a.m.

Big Benz. S65 with limiter removed and you're there. Question becomes is it there in half a mile? Prolly not. Texas mile? Prolly so. My E55 aint stock but is as stable at 180 as it is at 80. S65 maybe even more so. I would much rather approach those speeds in something designed for it rather than a hopped up whatever that gets light in its loafers at 140. 

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess MegaDork
1/5/19 7:16 a.m.

According to teh maffs, weight has nothing to do with top speed.  A bit with getting there, but nothing outside of maybe a little wheel bearing drag.  That's maffs for you.

 

The easiest, cheapest and safest way is going to be your retired NASCAR chassis with a 800 HP V8 in it. That's practically a crate motor today.  The Esprit Turbo SE would still be coolest.

Dave M
Dave M Reader
1/5/19 7:53 a.m.
G_Body_Man said:

Old NASCAR roller, junkyard LQ4 and 4L80E, 2.something rear gears, big injectors, stiff valve springs, dual fuel pumps, tunnel ram, nasty cam, eBay 88mm 1.32 AR turbo with a water-to-air intercooler, 200 shot of nitrous and methanol injection just because. Set it up for E85 and let it eat. It may only do it once, but it'll do it.

This. It seems like there are a lot of ideas, but most of them are:

AMG

Vette

NASCAR

I know that for my life, I want to be in a built tube frame racecar with all the safety gear at 200 if possible. Also the NASCAR cars at track days are incredibly cool and I'm jealous.

ProDarwin
ProDarwin UltimaDork
1/5/19 7:56 a.m.
Dr. Hess said:

The easiest, cheapest and safest way is going to be your retired NASCAR chassis with a 800 HP V8 in it.

 I don't think that will reach 200 in 1/2 mile

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess MegaDork
1/5/19 8:04 a.m.

In reply to ProDarwin :

Texas mile is also viable.

frenchyd
frenchyd UltraDork
1/5/19 8:16 a.m.

In reply to NordicSaab :

Can we debate your limitations?  Especially regarding distance?  500 miles or Texas really seems limiting if it’s really a bucket list item and not just a whim. 

The safest place to go really fast ( assuming you don’t have access to the big testing grounds) is someplace like Bonneville or The dry lakes of California. 

Wide open for miles so  you rent something with that potential and just do it.  During any event I’ll bet someone with a 250-300 mph car properly prepared and plenty safe enough would gladly rent you the car to offset  his costs especially if your goal is less than the cars potential. 

In all probability it would be far easier and cheaper than safely building your own. 

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