Challenge friendly RWD powerplants

I've sorta been through this excercise before, but I haven't been hanging around here for a few years, so I'm curious the current "answer" is. What are people swapping into their underpowered little sports cars these days? Old-timers will probably guess what I'm going for here.

At best I think the bay is 28" long and 34" wide, but that's really pushing it. I won't have much room to set the engine back. Cost is probably the most important factor. Power and weight are a toss-up. I'd like to see what the different strategies are.

SBF, aluminum heads and intake. Cheap thrills.

LSx. Nothing else comes close.

LSx is big HP, but the SBF is so cheap. No, I'm not a fanboi.

VQ35DE is my current obsession for the small/rwd car setup. 329lbs with exhaust manifolds/intake manifold/mounts

5.3 LS truck motor. Same weight as the VQ when you score an alloy block and 300HP stock. Slap on a carb or LS1 car intake, a hot cam, and a set of headers and you're looking at 400HP on 87 swill. LKQ sells em at $500 and you can often find $100 off coupons.

What P71 said.

LM7 cheep and add a cam and you have 400 hp $500 will get you a complete motor with accessories harness and computer. The all alu versions are selling for about $600. 5.3L of GM V8 goodness. Based on the LS architecture just not an LSx motor. Think Vortech.

28" deep?

Pick most V6s.

For cheap I would look into a 3.1l Camaro engine with a manual trans

P71 wrote: 5.3 LS truck motor. Same weight as the VQ when you score an alloy block and 300HP stock. Slap on a carb or LS1 car intake, a hot cam, and a set of headers and you're looking at 400HP on 87 swill. LKQ sells em at $500 and you can often find $100 off coupons.

Really? the L33 (am I thinking the right 5.3 LS motor?) weighs 100lbs or so less than an ls1/2?

splitime wrote: VQ35DE is my current obsession for the small/rwd car setup. 329lbs with exhaust manifolds/intake manifold/mounts

I am still tempted to drop one of those in my fiat. Everytime I think I am over that temptation, I come across a sweet sounding 350z

How much does the Nissan motor and transmission set me back? All those letters and numbers sound expensive.

I need to know more about the GM motors. I'm confused. LSx, LM7, L33? Are those all the same thing? 300 hp is plenty. Is there an exhaust manifold setup that keeps it pretty narrow? What transmissions are available/appropriate? SBC stuff? Cheap, light, versatile gearing, shifter location? Are there any automatics worth considering?

Is cost the only thing going for the SBF? How much cheaper would it be? Could I find somebody's abandoned Mustang project and score all the stuff for a dime bag and a kitten?

Thanks for the ideas, guys. Good stuff. I'll start trying to find dimensions, etc.

LS motors come in car flavor (LS1 etc) and truck flavor (Vortec). They are the same motors with different accessory drives and intakes. Everything is interchangable. ~350Lbs is normal for an all-aluminum one w/plastic intake, electric water pump, and headers.

LS1 was first, came in 300-350HP versions (really they pretty much all make at least 350, vastly under-rated) and came in 98-02 Camaro Z28/SS, 98-02 Trans Am/Formula/Firehawk, and 97-03 Corvette along with the 04 GTO. All were 5.7L.

LS2 is the big-bore version (6.0L) and is 400HP as found in the 05-06 GTO, 04-07 Corvette, and the SSR.

LS3 is a slightly bigger LS2 (6.2L) with the new L92 head (basically big block Chevy ports) and can make massive numbers (all stock with a cam and tune is well over 500HP).

Trucks came with iron or aluminum block versions of 5.3's and 6.0's. Car Craft always has really good articles on the LSx architecture (not to be confused with the LSX factory crate motor).

I did a little searching, and can get an iron Vortec 5.3 for 450 or alum for 650 from a local JY. Thats just the motor, though. No trans, no computer, no accessories, etc. Looks like it easily makes 100hp more than a 5.0, but I can get a whole 88 T-bird for 600 bones.

http://boston.craigslist.org/bmw/cto/1577570678.html

Neither option has me really excited.

cwh wrote: LSx is big HP, but the SBF is so cheap. No, I'm not a fanboi.

I may be a ford fanboi, but look at what wheels can get with a SBC is pretty impressive. Maybe he knows how to sort the right parts better? Don't fully know.

For 6 cyl, which is easier- V or I? I always thought the original 300Z motor was decent.

I4? Depends on where you can get parts. I can make an Alfa work, but I doubt that's high on anyone else's list (although, it's a very light motor). Miata, Nissan, Toyota, etc.. Or can you find a crashed Solstace?

Pretty interesting question.

www.quads4rods.com for all you domestic rwd 4 cyclinder needs

Wheels's recipe is pretty simple, problem is he is the only one who knows it. He has offered to take anyone interested to swap meets with him, so I am sure you could follow and learn.

The original question has soooo many answers. If you have to do an engine/trans combo it gets more difficult.

There are several options if you decide to go I4. Miata with turbo, Turbododge, mazda/ford 2.3, etc...

If you want a I-6 or v6 you can use Zcar stuff, BMW stuff, Camaro bits, etc...

A V8 is fun, but the power means you have tougher transmission choices. For a manual you can get a t-5 in Ford or Chevy flavor but they probably wont last in a normal weight car. You can get a circle track trans (saginaw?) but I have heard they are fragile as well. A t56 is the best but even broken ones are $500. If you can survive an auto you have a bunch of options under challenge budget. You even open up more options for engines that only came with autos from the factory (toyota v8). The problem with autos is getting a setup that works well for autocross AND drag racing. In this case the domestics win because you have access to a HUGE aftermarket.

Fun question!

The 28" length concerns me.

I really think you should look into a shorter engine specifically a V6.

Easy choices:

1.1L/1.3L Mazda Rotary

2.8L/3.1L/3.4L GM

3.0L Ford Vulcan

3.0L Mazda 626 V6

3.0L/3.3L/3.5L Nissan

3.0L/3.4L Toyota

3.5L Dodge 300

3.8L GM

3.8L/4.2L Ford

3.9L Dodge Dakota

Where it is going could help with the suggestions Mr. McFangus.

LSx/Vortec truck motor dimensions

The Fbody accessories/pan/intake shorten things more than an inch in height and length.

With limited rear room available he needs to make sure he doesn't extend the engine too far forward. If the engine bay length is 28" he may still want to install a radiator and possibly accessories.

The LS engine is pretty short and wide, I would be concerned with packaging it in there with the lenght Angus has.

I've been seeing lots of SHOs at the PullApart. Someone has made them RWD, but I'm not surewho nor how. I say either Dodge 2.2, with Dakota trans, or DSM with a Mighty Max/Dodge D50/Starion trans.

3 cylinder Yan Mar diesel with a six speed!

The answer is Mitsubishi 4G63t. You know them from the DSM (Eclipse, Laser, Talon) fame. These engines are a $.10/12 and hold a LOT of power. The 300 whp recipe for the 4G63 is not that far from stock. Some say you can drag 300 hp out of a 14B, but I have never seen it. A turbo upgrade (even to a 16G will get you 300), injectors (look around, folks on here have injectors), a fuel pump, a front-mount intercooler, 3" exhaust and a tune.

 You are all, "But, Les, you can't make that rear wheel drive without spending a $million on a Buschur RWD swap!"
 I am all, "Yes I can."

Go to the Pull-A-Part and find yourseld a 2wd Toyota truck or a Supra. Yes, there are Supras at the Pull-A-Part. Remove the transmission and shifter. Don't worry about grabbing the clutch, just make sure you get the shift fork, TOB, and slave cylinder. At Pull-A-Part, there are set prices for everything. The trans., shifter, and cold-start injector cost me $86 out the door. Look here: www.pull-a-part.com .

Next, get ahold of a guy named Bill Hincher and order the proper bellhousing to mate the 4G63 to your W-50-series or R154 (from a turbo Supra; don't think THEY will be in the Pull-A-Part, though). The bellhousing set-up for the W-50-series is about $250. The set-up for the R154 is $450.

You will have to make some mods to the engine as you are turning it 90*. Go here for more info: www.projectzerog.com .

If you are not savvy with wiring, go to www.hotrodcoffeeshop.com and look for 4g63mightymax and ask him to configure a harness for you. This will cost about $150.

OR you can get a 4G64 out of a Mighty Max and use that block and transmission (the 4G64 Mighty Max trans will not bolt up to the 4g63 because the bellhousing is different; Mitsu made a "norrow-block" 4G series that they put into the Mighty Max, but I doubt you'll find one, most are 2.4's). All "Sirius" Mitsubishi engines can swap heads, so you can have the bigger displacement (2.4L vs. 2.0, with the 4G64 over the 4G63), and use the dual cam head. However, you are pushing the limit of the Mighty Max trans. at 300 whp. I have a Mighty Max 2.4 and 5-speed trans. here if you need it.

BTW, I bought my powerplant in a running '95 Eagle Talon for $150 (no BS. Yes, I have the reciept). I pulled the engine/trans., E-prom ECU, E-prom TCU, K-member with all suspension, intercooler, radiator, etc. and still junked the car for $223 and change.

You have it all right there: dependability (some may argue this), high output, cheap, and light. Are you excited yet? I just got a woody talking about it.

-Les

GM supercharged 3.8? Im not sure if they were ever supercharged in S10/blazers, but those are tuff as nails engines and are pretty common. Im just not sure about mounts. You may have to get creative with mounts and exhaust, but that should fit a pretty tight bay.

What about Northstars?
toyota 2jz turbo?
Jeep 4.0?

just thinking aloud about space saving alternatives.

4cylndrfury wrote: GM supercharged 3.8? Im not sure if they were ever supercharged in S10/blazers, but those are tuff as nails engines and are pretty common. Im just not sure about mounts. You may have to get creative with mounts and exhaust, but that should fit a pretty tight bay. What about Northstars? toyota 2jz turbo? Jeep 4.0? just thinking aloud about space saving alternatives.

I love the 3800SC's from GM. You can use a Camaro 3400 5-speed behind it. Again, you are pushing the limit of the trans. at 300 whp. I don't think you will save any space with a Northstar. Just my $.02

-Les

fastasleep wrote: Are you excited yet? I just got a woody talking about it. -Les

You would :)