A couple of months ago I asked the board what tow pig I should buy for a cross country trip I was planning. A lot of readers suggested an early aughts Suburban or Tahoe. These vehicles were praised for their durability and drivability. I quickly decided I didn't really want to mess with something that old and worn out, and started looking for newer Tahoes and then finally decided the 3.5 liter EcoBoost Ford Expedition was what I really wanted.
I bought and prepped a nice, under-100,000-mile 2015 Expedition for the trip. I then contacted a shipping company to transport the truck to Las Vegas where my trip would begin. And waited in the ensuing weeks for them to pick up my tow pig.
When the shipping company totally screwed me and did not pick up the Expedition, I desperately started scouting around for a solution. Oddly enough, a friend had bought a 2001 Chevy Suburban and it was stuck in, of all places, Las Vegas. He asked me if I might get it home to him in Florida, solving both of our problems.
With much trepidation, I agreed and flew to Las Vegas to pick up a 20-year-old truck I knew nothing about. After traversing three of the highest passes in the U.S. with zero problems and spending a day in one of the most comfortable trucks I have ever driven, I am a total convert. Sure, I miss the power of the Expedition, but this is a great truck. Towing an Aerovault trailer (more to come on this) sure made it easier.
Bottom line, you guys were right. I probably should have saved some money and bought one of these fantastic trucks.
What was the shipping company? Lol
There's a reason you see those Suburbans on the road everywhere
Escalades are usually cheaper because all the Cadillac bits that you don't care about are broken.
Just sayin'.
Just keep a modest budget around for window regulators, climate control panels, gauge clusters, and fuel pumps. The drivetrain will go forever, the electronics are on par with a Lucas-era Land Rover. It's the best generation (GMT 800) Suburban though.
In reply to Javelin (Forum Supporter) :
Transmission TCU? In what? It has a PCM, not a ECM and TCM, and failure rate on the PCM is so close to zero we can call it zero.
Honestly the only things I've seen on these that I would call a common issue is interiors not aging great and some rust issues, but I'm in Ohio, so rust is our automotive grim reaper. It comes for us all.
These are great because they get purchased new as transportation for trophy wife/soccer mom set, then get sold in a couple years when they aren't new enough to be status symbols any more. This leads to a pretty steady supply of good used ones on the market. (I'm talking about the suburbans, not the soccer moms)
This thing is in pretty good shape. The brakes are uninspiring and I have been downshifting the transmission to get down the hills. I am assuming if I am gentle with my inputs, it won't hurt anything.
Yeah every one I've driven has a brake pedal that feels sketchy. But yet they've never failed to stop...
These are great because they get purchased new as transportation for trophy wife/soccer mom set, then get sold in a couple years when they aren't new enough to be status symbols any more. This leads to a pretty steady supply of good used ones on the market. (I'm talking about the suburbans, not the soccer moms)
I've seen the same phenomenon occur with the soccer moms.
Tim Suddard said:
This thing is in pretty good shape. The brakes are uninspiring and I have been downshifting the transmission to get down the hills. I am assuming if I am gentle with my inputs, it won't hurt anything.
I've towed a bit with the pickup version of that (a 5600lb 4.8l Sierra) and I did the opposite. I kept it in 3rd gear to preserve the transmission, except for going downhill, when I would shift to overdrive to let the engine have a little respite.
This, admittedly, being the gentlish rolling hills in Ohio, where you still need to accelerate a bit to maintain 75-80mph downhill, which honestly is as fast as I feel comfortable towing a car trailer.
As for the brakes.... if you've spent any amount of time with the previous generation of Chevy truck, you'd be impressed with the brakes in this guy. Kind of like how the C4 Corvette has awesome handling if you've been exposed to a lot of C3s. If all you've known were C5s and C6s, you'd be cursing the C4's incompetence.
The previous generation truck had an RWAL system that would almost always have a long pedal that felt like a brake line leak. You'd have to push through an inch or two of moderately loaded pedal travel before the brakes would actually start to bite. It sucked. A lot.
I'm with Pete. If you are unfamiliar with GM brakes, in just about any model, you will be gently horrified by the pedal feel.
Also, the abs lawyers at GM had way, way too much input. After the second time I was terrified by my 2000 Silverado refusing to allow braking for an unreasonable length of time after hitting a pothole on perfectly dry pavement, I yanked the abs fuse. Much better now.
And while I am a luddite, I always say, after having the abs engage in my Volvo, "Oopsie. I should have been paying closer attention there." So, not all abs programming is bad.
In reply to Streetwiseguy :
GM does seem to be especially prone to weird ABS issues, like the RWAL long pedal problem, or the sensor jacking issue that pretty much every truck since 4 wheel ABS was introduced will get, and cause low speed ABS activation that can be, frankly, butt-puckering.
My favorite ABS was in my previous Volvo. It worked WITH the driver for gravel road shenanigans. I miss that car frequently.
Trans shop down the street took out one overhead door with that sensor jacking issue.
It's probably not as common here as in your part of the rust belt, but I sure do see it.
In reply to Javelin (Forum Supporter) :
I'm 350k miles into one. Out of your list, I've replaced two window regulators. One passenger, one driver's. They were $42 and took about 40 minutes to replace.
That's not exactly big budget budget items.
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
Sorry, my bad, I was thinking of the wrong GM. No transmission issues on these.
Someone enlighten me. Did suburbans have the 4L80? I thought the 4L60 in Tahoes was pretty much a guaranteed failure at some point during ownership?
Sonic
UltraDork
6/27/21 1:36 p.m.
The 2500s have the 4L80. 1500s have the 4L60
Not your truck, but do they offer a disc conversion on the rear? I know you're a Ford guy Tim, and I'm sorry; having owned both Chevies just ride better than comparable Fords. C-1500 to F-150 etc up the chain.
ShawnG
UltimaDork
6/27/21 1:51 p.m.
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) said:
These are great because they get purchased new as transportation for trophy wife/soccer mom set, then get sold in a couple years when they aren't new enough to be status symbols any more. This leads to a pretty steady supply of good used ones on the market. (I'm talking about the suburbans, not the soccer moms)
I've seen the same phenomenon occur with the soccer moms.
Those too but the maintenance costs will bury you.
No apologies necessary. Your misery was apology enough. Now get an old Escalade and enjoy the comfiest sofa in the towpig segment.
gearheadmb said:
Honestly the only things I've seen on these that I would call a common issue is interiors not aging great and some rust issues, but I'm in Ohio, so rust is our automotive grim reaper. It comes for us all.
These are great because they get purchased new as transportation for trophy wife/soccer mom set, then get sold in a couple years when they aren't new enough to be status symbols any more. This leads to a pretty steady supply of good used ones on the market. (I'm talking about the suburbans, not the soccer moms)
I dunno. I, shall we say notice the aesthetics of trophy wives and I guarantee not a single trophy wife around here would ever have been caught dead in a Suburban. You need to move many name plates up the ladder to achieve trophy wife worthy status. There was a period around there turn of the century that Hummer H1's were in vogue with that set, but other than that I'd start with BMW then move up from there.
914Driver said:
Not your truck, but do they offer a disc conversion on the rear? I know you're a Ford guy Tim, and I'm sorry; having owned both Chevies just ride better than comparable Fords. C-1500 to F-150 etc up the chain.
I beg to differ. The expedition and navigator went IRS in 2002. Chevy have only just done that with the T1XX platform. The IRS rides significantly better than the live axle.
914Driver said:
Not your truck, but do they offer a disc conversion on the rear? I know you're a Ford guy Tim, and I'm sorry; having owned both Chevies just ride better than comparable Fords. C-1500 to F-150 etc up the chain.
Pretty sure these had disk rear brakes.
I hated them and loved them: loved them because the brakes were too big to generate any heat, so the rotors would rust and the pins would sieze and they frequently required replacing calipers/pads/rotors. Hated them, because about the second or third time you have to do this, you can't really provide an answer for why they keep failing other than "rear disks suck" or "use your brakes harder".
In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :
The newer ford 4x's do ride better than the old HD fords I'm used to... but the chebbys do still have a smother 4wd ride than ford. And that's from a ford fan! But I'm not the type of guy that loves a brand so much as to ignore what I've felt. At least to my butt-dyno. 'Course we all know how subjective THEY are
Yep, discs all around on those.
The older trucks (GMT400) had the long pedal because they had calipers that aggressively retracted the pistons to reduce drag/improve fuel economy, and a stepped quick takeup master cylinder. Worked fine in theory, but most panic brake applications resulted in a big WHOOSH! and not much else. GMT800s didn't have that system and generally the brakes should work pretty well.... I know the first few years of production had a slightly different system than the later years though, and I've never driven an early one.
The 4L60 should go at least 150k miles at least in my experience. I've had quite a few and they have all made it to about 200k miles before getting a little too mushy for comfort. The driver makes a big difference, as with any automatic. They last a long time with a steady foot, and the tow/haul mode helps too.
The only time I've had scary ABS problems with these is if the shocks are tired and/or the front wheel bearings are starting to go out. For some reason worn wheel bearings dramatically lower the threshold of when it kicks on, especially if turning. I guess things are just flexing and moving more and the sensor clearance opens up. My GMT400s were this way too.
That looks like a really nice one, and the red is a pretty rare color.
