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Josh
Josh Dork
3/25/12 11:37 a.m.
stuart in mn wrote: That picture has been making the rounds of all the car boards in the last week or so, the story is something in the lift broke.

Even if that is true, it's probably still operator error. I find it extreeeeeemely unlikely that the operator set the safety catch on the lift and that failed AND it lost hydraulic pressure at the same time. I'm sure it was worth the 3 seconds he saved by not setting the safety catch.

DILYSI Dave
DILYSI Dave MegaDork
3/25/12 4:07 p.m.

I kinda like it. Especially the on board lights, as it is far to common for me to be needing a light, or fighting with having it in the right position. I've got some cage tubing. I've got a bender. Might be a future project for me.

SVreX
SVreX UltimaDork
3/26/12 10:54 p.m.

Needs a new name.

Sounds like a jumbo sized aerosol spray to get rid of this guy:

I actually like the design.

kevintpoe
kevintpoe New Reader
3/26/12 11:17 p.m.

I gotta say that anything that makes you safer under the car is a good thing to the wife.

This summer is four years since my Dad who was very conscious of setting the jack stands in place and the car being steady had the 1965/66 Corvair Yenko clone drop onto him while he was working on the transaxle.

Needless to say my wife is less than comfortable when I go under the same car today. I use an EzCarLift myself and understand the logic behind this creeper, but would feel a bit claustrophobic on it I think.

mainlandboy
mainlandboy New Reader
3/27/12 2:02 a.m.
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:
bravenrace wrote: Times change, I guess.
Not really. I still don't like it. I have enough problems with being able to maneuver around under the car and reach tools. Adding a roll cage to the creeper is as intrusive as using 50 jack stands and makes it too heavy to throw across the room in a fit of rage when it gets stuck and won't roll over a tiny bump on the floor.

I've had that problem where a pebble or screw or nut on the floor stops the creeper from rolling. I saw this a while back, which I thought was a good idea:

http://www.creepersweeper.com/

Ian F
Ian F UltraDork
3/27/12 7:24 a.m.

In reply to Dr. Hess:

My guess is it was the combination of the suspension points on a Locost being close together plus the light weight making it easier for whatever you were wrenching on to torque the assembly off the stands.

The creeper is a neat idea, especially the one with lights. Not really practical for me with a scissor lift.

foxtrapper
foxtrapper UberDork
3/27/12 10:15 a.m.

As much as I want to like creepers, they drive me nuts by rolling around whenever I go to tug or push on something. I'd love a design that would lock itself to the ground when I want it locked, and then release and roll easily when I'm ready to move. Haven't found such a critter yet.

As far as jack stands go, remember the triangle. That's the most important limit of them. A 6" base is very stable when holding a load centered 8" up. It is far less stable when that load is 18" up. Very little force is necessary to rock it, and just a little motion puts it outside the stability of the base. If you're going to go up, you need a wide base, and most jack stands don't provide enough base wide. This is when you need to start using timbers instead.

Placing a vehicle up on 4 jack stands is actually quite difficult, and frequently done poorly. Jacking up the car and placing the first set of stands is easy. Doing the 2nd set tends to go wrong because the jack goes up in an arc, and pulls the car over on the 1st set of stands. You place those second set of stands, but the first set are cocked. Now the car is sitting on four jack stands, and none of them are very secure or stable. You really need to go back to the first end, jack the car a third time, and reset those first stands.

The higher you go, the more crucial it is that the jack stands be perfectly vertical, and on secure footing so they don't sink in. Those footed types sink into hot asphalt real well, and then fall over.

Beware round feet that roll wonderfully when even faintly cocked.

Cast stands with ratchet mechanisms are wonderfully convenient. I use them myself. But castings fail without much warning. Old fashioned tubes and big pins fail much more slowly...usually. You will tend to see distortions happening long before total failure. No so with cast stands, as a general rule.

ls1fiero
ls1fiero Reader
3/27/12 8:19 p.m.
novaderrik wrote:
EvanB wrote: For that price I would rather save the money and get a lift.
you mean like one of these? Happened to me once too. The truck did not make it all the way to the ground when the cable pulled out of one of the posts but came damn close. The roof was like 1/64th from one post and dropping when I started piling blocks on a bottle jack. Farking scary stuff.
novaderrik
novaderrik SuperDork
3/27/12 8:26 p.m.
foxtrapper wrote: As much as I want to like creepers, they drive me nuts by rolling around whenever I go to tug or push on something. I'd love a design that would lock itself to the ground when I want it locked, and then release and roll easily when I'm ready to move. Haven't found such a critter yet. As far as jack stands go, remember the triangle. That's the most important limit of them. A 6" base is very stable when holding a load centered 8" up. It is far less stable when that load is 18" up. Very little force is necessary to rock it, and just a little motion puts it outside the stability of the base. If you're going to go up, you need a wide base, and most jack stands don't provide enough base wide. This is when you need to start using timbers instead. Placing a vehicle up on 4 jack stands is actually quite difficult, and frequently done poorly. Jacking up the car and placing the first set of stands is easy. Doing the 2nd set tends to go wrong because the jack goes up in an arc, and pulls the car over on the 1st set of stands. You place those second set of stands, but the first set are cocked. Now the car is sitting on four jack stands, and none of them are very secure or stable. You really need to go back to the first end, jack the car a third time, and reset those first stands. The higher you go, the more crucial it is that the jack stands be perfectly vertical, and on secure footing so they don't sink in. Those footed types sink into hot asphalt real well, and then fall over. Beware round feet that roll wonderfully when even faintly cocked. Cast stands with ratchet mechanisms are wonderfully convenient. I use them myself. But castings fail without much warning. Old fashioned tubes and big pins fail much more slowly...usually. You will tend to see distortions happening long before total failure. No so with cast stands, as a general rule.

i must be doing something wrong, because i find it very easy to get a car securely up on 4 jack stands without any trouble. as long as the jack you are using has wheels on the bottom, the first jack stands will act as the pivot point and the jack will roll in as the car goes up.. it becomes trickier in dirt or gravel, but not impossible as long as you've got a chunk of plywood or something for the jack to roll on..

Dr. Hess
Dr. Hess UltimaDork
3/27/12 8:56 p.m.
Ian F wrote: In reply to Dr. Hess: My guess is it was the combination of the suspension points on a Locost being close together plus the light weight making it easier for whatever you were wrenching on to torque the assembly off the stands. The creeper is a neat idea, especially the one with lights. Not really practical for me with a scissor lift.

Wasn't the Locost, Ian. It was one of the Europas. The back points were way outboard, maybe 8" in from where the tires would be. The front points were about at the suspension pickup points. Just weird. And the stands were not cocked or anything either. They were placed by picking up one end of the car (no jack needed, just grab it and lift) and sliding the stand in place. Makes ya think.

I've used 4 stands on the Esprit without problems. The roller/wheels on the hydraulic jack make jacking the back up without moving the front easy. Letting it all down, the back stands will shift a little to stay square with the moving suspension, as I put the back stands just under the bottom shock mount. That car weighs about 3K lbs. Dropping it on my chest would mean we'd need a new Dr.Hess. Think I'll leave the hydraulic jack under the rear frame hoop from now on when I'm under it.

Ian F
Ian F UltraDork
3/27/12 9:09 p.m.

In reply to Dr. Hess:

Yes, it does make you think. I still stand by part of my theory the light weight of the frame made it easier to displace.

Some cars really are a pita to get on stands. As I've mentioned in other threads, a couple of scary 'almosts' getting MINIs on stands made it easier to justify the expense of a lift.

psychic_mechanic
psychic_mechanic Dork
3/28/12 8:35 a.m.
irish44j wrote: yikes....how did it shift?

With it being a europa, I'm thinking a stiff breeze, lol.

I agree with also tossing something under the car other than jack stands as well at strategic points. I usually have a wheel or two laying around, or just taken off the car I put in the air that go under the frame or crossmembers. The first thing I do after getting any car in the air, on a lift or jackstands, is give it a good shake on the bumper to see if it's secure.

BBsGarage
BBsGarage HalfDork
3/28/12 8:48 a.m.

It looks to me that if you are only partially under the car and it falls you may be a heap of trouble.

slefain
slefain SuperDork
3/28/12 9:02 a.m.

I've thought about something like a lighting truss that you could just toss under the car that would go the entire width of the car, around one foot high. Like this:

I've been meaning to make some pillars from landscape timber also. Just something to toss under. I thought the boxed tube steel might be lighter and easier to store (hang from ceiling or wall).

The older I get, the more paranoid I get about a car dropping on me, mainly cause it happened to me once. A minor fall and no damage, but scary anyway. Thought I did everything right, but the stands shifted even after I did my usual "try to knock it off the stands" bit before climbing under.

The creeper is cool, but I see lots of area that you can still get squished on that thing. The thought of a car dropping on me doesn't scare me, the thought of trying to claw my way through 6" of concrete with bare hands while being unable to breath scares me.

foxtrapper
foxtrapper UberDork
3/28/12 10:02 a.m.

Yep, jacks roll on their wheels. At least that's the theory.

In reality, many times I've watched the jack get stuck, and the car get pulled over. It's something I always watch for, because it happens many more times than I like.

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