MrJoshua
MrJoshua UltimaDork
11/29/20 6:59 p.m.

Anybody here fluent in the arduino based EFI systems? I am attempting to fit aftermarket control of a Toyota 2zzge engine (came in celica gts, has variable intake cam timing and a vtec like swith to high lift cam) into challenge budget. The megasquirt world supports reasonable control of the variable valve timing and the cam switchover if you pony up for the MS3Extra but that is more $ than I want to spend on the computer (even used).

The arduino systems support the variable cam and cam switchover at a much lower price point. Does anyone here have advice for someone who has owned a MS2 controlled Miata but deferred to a teammate for tuning? Is it reasonable to think I can figure it out? Are the arduino systems and forums even slightly user friendly or am I going to get lost in a world of coders? Any advice on which system to use?

Vigo (Forum Supporter)
Vigo (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
11/30/20 12:43 a.m.

Curious about this myself. A couple of months ago I told myself i would buy a Speeduino in December, and I'm still thinking about it. 

Mr_Asa
Mr_Asa SuperDork
11/30/20 1:01 a.m.

I remember a couple of the Ga Tech guys talking about RussEFI at the pool when we got back from the track after the first day.  May be able to reach out to them and see who was working on that stuff.

Honsch
Honsch New Reader
11/30/20 3:09 a.m.

We run a Speeduino based UA4C on our VW Fox race car.
It's an ABA with the stock 60-2 crank wheel.  It's setup for sequential fueling and wasted spark ignition with the stock distributor giving us the cam angle. 

It seems to work well enough.  Idle control with the large two wire Bosch valve isn't great, but that's on the crappy Bosch valve that goes from fully closed to fully open in about 8% PWM change. 

The wiring was straightforward but the connectors on the UA4C have terrible crimp pins that don't want to stay in the housing.  Maybe it's my crimper damaging the pins?  No one else seems to have this problem.

Setting the engine up isn't difficult if you understand EFI.  I did the initial bring-up and base tune then we took it to a dyno and let a pro dial it in.

The only real issue was some sync loss if the engine misfired.  It was solved by modifying the VR signal conditioner with a loading resistor to keep it happy.

If I were to do it again I would probably go with a Tiny based board.  I have some concerns with the CPU overhead on the slow Arduino.  I mean it works for us, I'm just an embedded software developer who specializes in drivers and custom hardware so I'm paranoid about this stuff.

MadScientistMatt
MadScientistMatt UltimaDork
11/30/20 7:18 a.m.

2ZZ variable valve timing is continuously variable, not on-off like VTEC. To use this to its full capability, you will want to make sure whatever you go with has closed loop VVT capabilities and a decoder able to suppor the 2ZZ cam sensor.

MrJoshua
MrJoshua UltimaDork
11/30/20 8:29 a.m.
MadScientistMatt said:

2ZZ variable valve timing is continuously variable, not on-off like VTEC. To use this to its full capability, you will want to make sure whatever you go with has closed loop VVT capabilities and a decoder able to suppor the 2ZZ cam sensor.

That's what makes things more difficult. I have to control the 2zz's variable timing of the VVTi and the 6k RPM switchover "L" like Vtec. From what I read the MS3extra does this and so do the varieties of speeduino and they have the appropriate decoder for the crank and cam wheels.  The arduino systems VVTi-L control capability looks like it is a more recent development than with the MS3extra. Either way it doesn't look like I have to forge a new path and make discoveries, but it is hard to tell how difficult it is to follow what others have done.

Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter)
Paul_VR6 (Forum Supporter) Dork
11/30/20 8:41 a.m.

Last I checked the speedy closed loop vvt was not great (at least trying to tune it remotely on a car that I couldn't put hands on). The PID was untunable, this was on some sort of 4 cyl Ford engine with intake VVT. Not sure it was a vvt issue, a decoder issue or what. Punted to on/off and lost track of the customer project. 

I feel like speedy has a few advanced features and it will catch up to other systems, but it feels like MS in the mid 00s as far as complexity, documentation and general feel.

GIRTHQUAKE
GIRTHQUAKE Dork
2/25/21 11:51 a.m.

Bit of a resurrection to this thread because I'm looking at one for a project.

I have several questions to those that have used the Speeduino; I have a 4AGE that I might have to rebuild and I'm staring down the barrel of scope creep. Stock ECU can run quite a bit when it comes to the 4A/7A, but it's basically a Colecovision doing light Air/fuel ratios and if I'm messing with pistons and new cams I'm going the full ham to take advantage of it. I'd be keeping it N/A and use the stock coil and dizzy because there's no reason to waste money when they're basically new parts, so I'm mostly using it for sequential injection and a custom map to take advantage of higher compression and a bigger set of cams. Except...

  • 4AGE fans have mentioned that the Speedunio steadily seems to run worse and worse over time, and I know vibrations in cars steadily damages solder joints. Has anyone experienced this, or is it just internet rumor?
  • And if yes, should I "pot" the ECU in something like lacquer to keep it all in one piece once I know it works properly?
  • What trigger wheel would I use? Guys like D4A have a crank sensor I can buy and the wiki implies I could use anything from a 24-tooth to a 64.
  • Does the TPS and 3-wire O2 sensor work out of the box? I still have my personal tests so I can reference- I think they will- but I just thought I'd ask now.

The ECU will likely either stay in the trunk or will be moved into the cabin to better protect it, and I'll use OEM connectors (which from the wiki, Toyota connectors from that year are used meaning I could literally just plug it in). Thanks to anyone who replies!

alfadriver (Forum Supporter)
alfadriver (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
2/25/21 12:39 p.m.

In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :

Use conformal coating for the board.  It's designed to do exactly what you want it to do.  And a quick google search shows a few places sell it, including Amazon.  That's what is used for OEM modules.

Vajingo
Vajingo Reader
2/25/21 5:51 p.m.

In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :

And use connectors. Not solder. Solder does with vibrations. Connectors are less likely to do so. Heat shrink all connectors so they can't come apart. This also allows you to do repairs and diagnostics anywhere. 

alfadriver (Forum Supporter)
alfadriver (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
2/25/21 6:46 p.m.

In reply to Vajingo :

I think you mean crimp connectors, right?  Invest in a good crimping tool, use the right pins and the right size wire.  Some OEM applications also include weather plugs (can't remember what those are called).  

GIRTHQUAKE
GIRTHQUAKE Dork
2/26/21 10:43 a.m.
Vajingo said:

In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :

And use connectors. Not solder. Solder does with vibrations. Connectors are less likely to do so. Heat shrink all connectors so they can't come apart. This also allows you to do repairs and diagnostics anywhere. 

That's the problem tho; Speeduino is soldered together, i.e. all the individual capacitors and E36 M3 have to be placed and connected as you can see here. It's why I brought up Conformal coating.
Thankfully, the wiki directly mentions using 87 Supra connections- and this'll go into an 87 MR2. Though I wont say parts bin toyota used the same connectors between a 4AGE and a 7MGE, I think there's still a good chance they did.

jimbbski
jimbbski SuperDork
2/26/21 11:39 a.m.

FYI:  Rust EFI was developed by a friend of mine. He lives in NJ and has a U Tube channel as well as a website.

I call him the "crazy russian"  but he does know his stuff. 

I met him when I helpped him build a Lemons race car.

03Panther
03Panther UltraDork
5/13/21 11:33 p.m.
jimbbski said:

FYI:  Rust EFI was developed by a friend of mine. He lives in NJ and has a U Tube channel as well as a website.

I call him the "crazy russian"  but he does know his stuff. 

I met him when I helpped him build a Lemons race car.

There are a few Crazy Russians on the tube of u's... I think it may be a trend! I've seen one that demonstrates various wepons platforms, and my wife folows one that reviews anything he can get his hands on.

Are you still in tough with him? If he is still doing anything with his BMW K bike units, I am very interested. I found a fair bit of info. online, but a lot was pretty far over my non computer geek head! Also most was older info. I know he was finishing up school, and going to work, so he may have zero time these days!

russian
russian Reader
9/20/21 6:02 p.m.

c'mon, it's rusEFI not rust EFI :)

it's really unclear what's the point of rusEFI but as of right now the strategy is to shift focus from univereal microRusEFI and Proteus to more plug-in Hellen units like 

russian
russian Reader
9/20/21 6:02 p.m.

Teh E36 M3
Teh E36 M3 SuperDork
9/20/21 6:39 p.m.

Dang, this is so neat. I bought a microsquirt for my project (2.0 MZR/ITB's/cams in '62 MG Midget), but after I get this guy going, I may try the RUSEFI. I have a lot of learning to do.

03Panther
03Panther UltraDork
12/20/21 8:24 p.m.

In reply to russian :

Just saw you on your car build, but thought I'd revive this to not derail it!

Did you ever finish any of the work on K bike computers? I have a few projects in mind, but not efi literate!

billstewartx
billstewartx Reader
12/22/21 7:01 a.m.

RusEfi working on a bunch of VEE12's right now 

and lots of 4cyl, 6 and 8 also 

andrey has a M73 BMW vee 12 he has running 

and planning on a N73 760 build also 

https://rusefi.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=1845

and i have a Jag V12 and a BMW M73 also that are working on rusefi  too 

check the forums 

https://rusefi.com/forum/

https://rusefi.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=2

russian
russian Reader
12/22/21 8:34 a.m.
03Panther said:

Did you ever finish any of the work on K bike computers?

Huh? What is a K bike? Drama is that ECU is still a complicated tool and it's still a major human effort to calibrate it for a new engine.

 

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
12/22/21 1:10 p.m.

In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :

I'm running my 4AGE on a MS3X, I use the T3 trigger wheel, depending on your oil pump / exact model of 4AGE you may need to machine an adapter to move this trigger wheel from the back of the crank pulley to the face of it - mine is a big aluminum ring which 4 long bolts run through. And then you'll have to make a custom bracket for the pickup which is a bit of a PITA. If you're willing to change oil pumps / modify oil pans and remove timing covers you may be able to work around this.

03Panther
03Panther UltraDork
12/22/21 7:19 p.m.
russian said:
03Panther said:

Did you ever finish any of the work on K bike computers?

Huh? What is a K bike? Drama is that ECU is still a complicated tool and it's still a major human effort to calibrate it for a new engine.

 

I I R C, several years ago, you were working on a stand alone system to replace the computer on a BMW "K" motorcycle?

russian
russian Reader
12/22/21 9:18 p.m.
I I R C, several years ago, you were working on a stand alone system to replace the computer on a BMW "K" motorcycle?

Not really. rusEFI is more or less a universal stand alone but but my personal test mules are Miata, Passat and two v12 BMWs

03Panther
03Panther UltraDork
12/23/21 3:30 p.m.

In reply to russian :

Must've read about someone using your rusEFI on one along the way, then. Forget where. Or it might have been a Honda VF Magna. I have a (one day) project interest in both. But not the knowledge to attempt myself!

Just added a Ninja 250 to that list in the last month surprise

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