Do I want a VW Beetle as much as I think I do?

Recently decided to sell my Saab and buy a Bug. This would be the first time I've actually pursued a particular type of car, instead of buying whatever takes my fancy whenever I have cash available.

It would need to look like this, i.e. an early-ish model with the painted metal dash, before it went to plastic. Pictured is a '65. I want a period hot-rod look.

So far, I've taken this daydream as far as obtaining this book, and looking at a bunch of Bug pictures on the internet.

Are the smaller capacity engines (eg, the 1200) liveable on a day-to-day basis, including some highway driving? Are there any essential upgrades, to bring an old Beetle into the modern world? (eg, 12V conversion).

I want something cheap(ish), old, simple, and most of all, fun.

For use on highways I would shoot for a later more powerful model, starting almost late enough to have 4lug/IRS. IIRC from when I looked into them a couple years ago, 1200 is a brick for cruise control type of thing, 65-70 mph on flat ground, given its a fairly low revving motor designed to run WOT all day long, but good luck keeping up with trucks on a hill. 6 volts worked fine when new, and the beetle was designed to be easily crank started in the event that failed.

I have that book... got it from dad... pretty sure he got it when he was given a VW bug while in germany that never ran (same with the old benz)... it's fun to read though :) but every time I do I want an air cooled dub...

Earlier cars command a premium and the older the bug, the more it is worth. The nice ones, and/or the very early cars (i.e. '50's vintage) are at the top of their market these days, and maybe on a bubble.

That said, '67 is regarded by many as the high-water mark for bugs, combining the early body style, metal dash and early bumpers with 12V and the cumulative incremental improvements over the years. '68 brought the padded dash, one piece bumper, headrests, 4-lug, etc. IRS replaced swing-axles in '69 if I recall correctly.

Unless you are going for a restored original, there is no shame in swapping a 1600. You will be hard-pressed to find an original 40hp anyway as the FV guys have probably used them all up by now.

You also won't find many that haven't been converted to 12V.

There should be an appendix in the Muir book that outlines the model year changes.

Yes, they can be daily driven but I'd want something more in the neighborhood of 55-60 hp minimum (easy to achieve).

I cannot speak to the daily driveability of my 67 Bug yet, but my HS 1st Car was a VW Thing and I drove it everywhere, all over the mountains of NC down to the coast and back again. It was a stock 1600 so 50ish hp at the crank and it just litterally puttered along, just not fast. I see lits of bugs used as DD here so I would say they are just as good as they ever were just not fast unless you do something to make them fast.

And there is no shame in putting a later model chassis with IRS and a 1600 (or more) under an older body... There are 5 speed conversions ($) and type 4 engine conversions.

if you were not after originality.. vwbugs ARE legos. You could take a latter floor pan (with it's better suspension, brakes, transmission, and engine) and with 32 bolts, put it under an early beetle for the best of both worlds.

Being able to unbolt the pan makes for easier floor replacement too.

Just watch out for the 73+ "Super Beetle" it's floor might bolt up, but you will be scratching your head on where to bolt the upper strut mounts

As I tell people who are considering an Alfa, drive one for as long as you can.

First, that will tell you if you actually can live with it (we all have different levels of acceptance). Second, it may also tell you what kind of mods you will try to find out of the gate.

Good Luck with your quest!

I’m all for you getting the Bug, I have fond memories of honing around country lanes as an irresponsible teenage in one. They can be made to handle surprisingly good and anything and everything you could ever want to do has been done before. I think any pre Super Beetle for the looks can be made into a great car with a bigger engine, the super Beetle McStrut front end is nice though for Porsche bolt on bits.

The only issue is I can’t condone selling your super Swede, think incremental not replacement and I’ll vote go for it.

My first car was 56 convertible and second was a 61 hardtop. I pretty much drove them everywhere, but the interstate was not where they belonged. I don't even remember ever getting on of them on the interstate. I've kinda looked around for another one, but the "beetle" tax is too much. I wouldn't kick a late model on to the curb.

I've seen a 67 around town that is for sale that has been dropped and the front narrowed on it. I don't like the look. He also has a luggae rack on it and drives around with suitcaes in the rack. All the time. I think he may be a VW tech because I saw it turning into the dealership the other day. Last I saw he wanted $3500. I think he started rediculously high, so he has come down.

If you have issues with power, swap in an EJ22 from a 90's Subaru. That's what I'm working on at the moment.

My '72 was a decent runner, could maintain 70 mph without straining too hard and got 28mpg doing it. 1600cc.

Mine is really drafty, combination of hacked up dashboard, crappy hood seals and a front-end collision in a previous ownership that left the hood and fenders a ill-fitting. Crosswinds at speed are pretty exciting until you get used to being a light-nosed sailboat. Haven't had to put it through any kind of winter weather yet.

There's a market for them if you get one and decide its not for you.

I did a little research into the 5 speed conversion for a buddy a while back, it appears there is one drawback: lower engine speed = lower fan speed. That means the engine is more prone to overheating and is one reason VW didn't do it in the first place.

I think '67 was the first year for IRS but I could be wrong. Also IIRC all the IRS Bugs had 4 bolt wheels, not the 'wide 5' of the swing axle cars.

I've had a LOT of aircooled VWs, mainly '50s and early '60s busses.

For daily driving get a new trans with different gear ratios and a more modern engine - a 1600 with the dual port heads. The 1200 will get a bug around town OK, but is painful on the highway.

Get ready to do a LOT of maintenance. They required a lot when new, and even more when worn out.

The heat sucks. Even in tip-top shape it was barely adequate during their day, and not up to modern standards. There's no AC. Liveable if you are in Seattle, but not in Kansas or Texas. There are aftermarket solutions, but they aren't very elegant.

modernbeat wrote: I've had a LOT of aircooled VWs, mainly '50s and early '60s busses. For daily driving get a new trans with different gear ratios and a more modern engine - a 1600 with the dual port heads. The 1200 will get a bug around town OK, but is painful on the highway. Get ready to do a LOT of maintenance. They required a lot when new, and even more when worn out. The heat sucks. Even in tip-top shape it was barely adequate during their day, and not up to modern standards. There's no AC. Liveable if you are in Seattle, but not in Kansas or Texas. There are aftermarket solutions, but they aren't very elegant.

Lol, Luke is in Western Oz, their Summer temps are 110 plus.

I think everyone should own a Bug at least once in their life. I had a '71 for a while, it was a total rust bucket but it ran pretty well and was fun to drive.

Biggest you can go on a rebuild with stock crank and without machining the case is the usual 1776cc conversion pistons and jugs. Same price as regular 1600cc ones, or cheaper, so I could never figure a down side to 11% more displacement. There are also some tricks like a mini sump and full flow spin-on oil filter conversion that together will get you up from 2.5 qts of oil to 4, and the extra oil is never a bad thing.

Hardest part for me was always the heater. As in there isn't one. The minimum you want is the kit that puts electric bilge fans under the rear seat and re-routes the input to the heaters to come from the rear interior of the car instead of the engine. That means recirc and less engine fumes, both of which are good, plus enough fan to actually get heat to the front. Adding Subie power cures that as you can get real heat and even add AC without the belt tension wearing out the side of the engine case.

Beetle model year changes

Trivia question: Beetles made before what year did not come with a fuel gauge?

Don't know the answer to the trivia question but I have seen them with the reserve lever. There's also heater kits which use an engine oil cooler mounted inside along with a fan. For me, the killer is that the defroster suxxors big time for the same reason the heat does: the air has to travel up the long rocker panels and then up the tubes to the windshield nozzles, by that time it's at best lukewarm.

I saw a Bug in Mother Earth News where the guy had installed a COAL BURNING STOVE!!!! in the rear. He lived in Colorado, it was the only way for him to get heat.

I've had over 30 custom VWs, mostly later aircooled cars, though there were a couple early cars (like a '57 Oval window). The plastic dash pad comes off the later cars and will look like the early cars. You can bolt the early fenders on and the early lights, as well. This is my '71 flat window Super Beetle with the '65 fenders and tailights on it, and the dash padding removed to make the dash look earlier:

It also had excellent heat and defrosting ( you couldn't hold your fingers over the defroster vents on the window, as it was too hot).

IRS started in '68 with the autostick Bugs, and '69 across the range. '67 was still swingaxle and it had the newer headlights. '66 was the last year for the covered glass headlights, but they were 6V stock (it's easy to convert them over, though)

A few more of my Bugs:

Yes

You do

I'm just wanting you to do it, I tried a while back, but in Kentucky I've only found rusted hunks that the owners think are worth 5k+ or fully restored show cars for 8k....

The late '70's 1600's didn't take well to long high speed runs. Dropped valves. As a Unit Tech at the time , I was kept busy rebuilding engines. The nice thing is that is such a modular engine.

70 mph was considered high speed at the time. It also was near top speed.

I know next to nothing about Beetles... but $10K doesn't sound bad for this one:

http://www.princetonlotus.com/ViewClassic.aspx?id=382

Most of the "cheapish" cars this place has sell pretty quickly, but they've had this car for months, if not a year. Granted, I've never stopped to actually look at it closely.

Curmudgeon wrote: I did a little research into the 5 speed conversion for a buddy a while back, it appears there is one drawback: lower engine speed = lower fan speed. That means the engine is more prone to overheating and is one reason VW didn't do it in the first place. I think '67 was the first year for IRS but I could be wrong. Also IIRC all the IRS Bugs had 4 bolt wheels, not the 'wide 5' of the swing axle cars.

Not with the Gene Berg system.. The GB 5spd kit moves 4th gear to the new 5th gear position and adds another gear in between the old 3rd and 4th. Gene Berg 5 speed

I'd look at finding one converted to 12v already then swap in a 1600cc motor. I'd do front disc brake conversion too if it were me. Have fun. Love those things.

I had a '71 or so Super Beetle convertible.

It may have been a decent car before I got it but it was a POS when I got it. But was still a fun cruiser at 55-60 mph with the top down.

The John Muir book is very useful. If you plan to keep the motor that's in the car, make sure it's not a "biscuit motor".

I seem to a recall an early road test comparing the Beetle heating system to having a mouse (or was it a hampster?) breathing on your foot.