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Indy-Guy
Indy-Guy UltraDork
2/7/19 10:56 a.m.

I'm gearing up for an LS Swap into my '65 Triumph TR4.  While searching for information, I'm only finding bits an pieces scattered everywhere.  Do we have a central thread of information?  Please don't make me spend time on other forums, because you guys are the best. wink

Patrick
Patrick MegaDork
2/7/19 11:18 a.m.

Literally any of my build threads?

i did spell lots out in my datsun thread, then photoberkeleyet killed my pics.  You have my number?

 I’m working right now, but if you want to make this the LS swap thread, have at it

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
2/7/19 11:23 a.m.

What are you looking for? Interchange and secret swap info for an engine that covers three generations over more than two decades? LS swap is a deep, deep pool. 

Indy-Guy
Indy-Guy UltraDork
2/7/19 11:43 a.m.

In reply to Patrick :

Thanks for the offer Pat.  I'll probably hit you up once I can formulate a (half way) intelligent question.

 

In reply to & Keith Tanner:

If you are looking to just spend $$ there are plenty of options out there to get an LS Swapped into just about anything.  But the price of LS engines (and complete running trucks with them in) are getting cheap enough that it's become a viable option for building a challenge car.  But to get it done under the $2000 budget, you have to get very creative re-use, or mix parts across the "LSx" family.    This is the segment of information I'm looking for.

 

Andy Neuman
Andy Neuman Dork
2/7/19 1:17 p.m.

Harness information http://lt1swap.com/index.htm this is a great resource. 

I liked LS Wiring Harness | Project Rowdy on youtube for confidence in how to do the wiring. 

As far as cheap 4.8 or 5.3 truck engines can be found fairly easily under $450 with a harness and ECU. 

Stock ECU is tunable with HP Tuners. You will need this to make it run without the factory security. 

There are adapter plates to allow you to run an older style transmission which will save you money, TH350 or 400. For challenge purposes I wouldn't opt for a manual transmission because of the cost of a T56, other transmission haven't been known to hold the power. 

The sloppy mechanics webpage is good if you want to go turbo. Being under budget with a turbo will require a decent amount of fabrication skills but I know people have run into the 9s with junkyard 4.8/5.3 engines.

This is good information regarding oil pans. 

Opti
Opti HalfDork
2/7/19 1:53 p.m.

Nothing helpful to add

edizzle89
edizzle89 SuperDork
2/7/19 1:56 p.m.

Keeping it challenge priced would be a pretty hard challenge but not impossible. I swapped my z31, after selling the engine/trans from the car and the extra parts that came with it, for just a hair under $3000 which includes the price of the car itself, I wasn't going for challenge budget but was trying to keep it low cost. That was also a bone stock truck engine with no power steering.

 

Your questions still seems too broad to get a true answer. With basically every LS engine having mostly interchangeable parts it's hard to answer.  I can give some general insight from my experience.

 

With swapping into a tr4 i'm guessing space will be tight. z32 5 speed trans can be had with an adapter plate and have a smaller body/bellhousing to them. might be able to keep from having to hack up the trans tunnel too much. The starter is also off the side of the bellhousing vs. side of the block which helps free up some engine bay room but might interfere with the passenger footwell.

 

You can see where the LS bellhousing bolt pattern is vs. the nissan pattern

 

 

 

Also stock manifold have a whole slew of different collector locations and are cheap as most people just throw them out when they swap to headers. They also might not flow as much as headers obviously but they still flow pretty well for factory.

 

LS3 camaro have a decent rear, straight down dump on them.

 

Also c6 non-z06 vette manifold have a pretty tight, high up, center dump

 

 

Also car intake manifolds are nice and low profile and help to clear low hoodlines but truck intake manifolds flow better, specifically the Trailblazer SS intake. Depending on the intake/fuel rail you use you might need a returnless system. That can easily be done with a corvette fuel filter, it has an internal regulator and a return line from it to go back to the tank, then you can run the outlet of the filter to the fuel rail and be done. you can see the inlet and the return on the bottom of the filter and the outlet at the top going to the fuel rail.

 

There are 3 different accessory spacings as well. truck, car, and vette. There are companies like ICT Billet who make dozens of different accessory brackets to pretty much put any accessory in any location with any spacing although they can get pricey.

 

For oil pans you can find basically any of the dimensions you'll need online, atleast for factory pans. as far as i know any pan can fit on any engine with the correct windage try and pickup tube.

 

Also if the Indy part of Indy-Guy means Indianapolis I live in Columbus, IN and have a few LS and misc. parts that I'm looking to sell if you're interested at all.

 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
2/7/19 2:05 p.m.
Indy-Guy said:

In reply to & Keith Tanner:

If you are looking to just spend $$ there are plenty of options out there to get an LS Swapped into just about anything.  But the price of LS engines (and complete running trucks with them in) are getting cheap enough that it's become a viable option for building a challenge car.  But to get it done under the $2000 budget, you have to get very creative re-use, or mix parts across the "LSx" family.    This is the segment of information I'm looking for.

There are literally books written on this. I think asking specific questions might be more useful than "tell me everything". Some of the basic stuff is easy - car manifolds are lower profile than truck manifolds, for example - but there's a lot of info. The Wikipedia article on LS engines helps you learn what variants are found where, such as the aluminum 5.3 L33. LS1tech.com is a good source of tech info, and the LT1 site linked earlier has some decent specific info on things like wiring it up.

oldopelguy
oldopelguy UberDork
2/7/19 2:14 p.m.

Also, the new FITech standalone LSx computer and harness with tuner for $750 is almost the easy button for a swap,  especially since it comes with a 3 bar map sensor that can handle boost. 

edizzle89
edizzle89 SuperDork
2/7/19 2:21 p.m.
oldopelguy said:

Also, the new FITech standalone LSx computer and harness with tuner for $750 is almost the easy button for a swap,  especially since it comes with a 3 bar map sensor that can handle boost. 

I had this on my LS swap and it worked really well from my experience, pretty easy to set up, well made harness that was easy to route, compact fuse box and ECM for easy mounting. There is a Facebook group that is much better support than you will get from Fitech. From what I saw and heard the self-tuning works well on N/A applications and can do minor tuning through the handheld unit but most people suggested laptop tuning when it came to going turbo as the timing was pretty aggressive for boost.

Indy-Guy
Indy-Guy UltraDork
2/7/19 7:31 p.m.

In reply to Andy Neuman :

Thanks for the info.  I had overlooked the need for a lower profile oil pan.

Indy-Guy
Indy-Guy UltraDork
2/7/19 7:41 p.m.

In reply to edizzle89 :

You've posted a wealth of information.  Big Thanks!  and yes, the "Indy" part of -Guy does mean I'm in the Indy area (Far East side).

 

Let's chat about those left over LS parts you want to get rid of. yes

Indy-Guy
Indy-Guy UltraDork
2/7/19 7:43 p.m.
oldopelguy said:

Also, the new FITech standalone LSx computer and harness with tuner for $750 is almost the easy button for a swap,  especially since it comes with a 3 bar map sensor that can handle boost. 

Sounds like the easy button, but at a $750 by in, it's too steep to get the swap done under budget.

Daylan C
Daylan C UltraDork
2/7/19 7:44 p.m.

Reminding me of the truck intake issue now has me back to wondering if I just need to give in and put a cowl hood on my GTA.  Since I already have to buy a hood. I seem to recall truck fuel rails having a regulator on them as well.

Indy-Guy
Indy-Guy UltraDork
2/7/19 7:47 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Point taken. Any specific books you'd like to recommend?

Also, the conversational culture that GRM has developed, is a great way to transfer information.  I've learned a Metric ton from following along and "ease dropping" on the back and forth others have had here in various threads.  How else would I have come to love the Bi-Turbo wink

1SlowVW
1SlowVW Reader
2/8/19 6:50 a.m.

In reply to Indy-Guy :

I went Microsquirt on 4.8, I’ve only fired the truck up in the garage so I can’t give a long term review. But the price was right and so far so good.

Andy Neuman
Andy Neuman Dork
2/8/19 7:11 a.m.

With my challenge swap, I have frequently purchased items that will no longer work within my budget and am using older parts that will keep my budget down. Example, I'm going to use the stock RX7 radiator at the challenge because it is good enough to make a few runs and that is all I really need to do. Cutting a hole in the hood is a whole lot cheaper than finding all of the car accessories for the engine. 

 

Indy-Guy
Indy-Guy UberDork
2/8/19 7:20 a.m.

In reply to Andy Neuman :

So..... Something like this, only not as nice?

Edit:  and instead of the snail poking out, it would be the alternator?

Double Edit:  Looks like I just broke into Uber territory.

edizzle89
edizzle89 SuperDork
2/8/19 8:36 a.m.
Indy-Guy said:

In reply to edizzle89 :

You've posted a wealth of information.  Big Thanks!  and yes, the "Indy" part of -Guy does mean I'm in the Indy area (Far East side).

 

Let's chat about those left over LS parts you want to get rid of. yes

 

I have a 0411 ecm with a base tune (and VATS removed) and a cut down standalone harness set up for non-electric trans and DBC throttlebody, a set of rockers with the trunion bearing upgrade, 31 lbs injectors, a pair of upstream o2's, and a wideband controller and gauge.

 

I also have an aluminum 5.3 bare block and pistons/rods for cheap, could just use a hone to clear of the surface rust. Was going to make it into an engine table but money is nice too.

 

PM me if you're interested in anything

Daylan C
Daylan C UltraDork
2/8/19 8:46 a.m.

My current plan is stock GM ECM on mine. Of course I'm also thinking 4L80E so I think that will be better for running the trans too.

Indy-Guy
Indy-Guy UberDork
2/8/19 9:14 a.m.

In reply to Patrick :

I can't seem to locate the Datsun build thread.  Can you point me in the right direction?  Didn't you have a trick for using the front wheel drive (LS4?) car intake manifold & fuel rails?

Also looking for any information about locating the alternator on the left side.  My swap will only need to turn the water pump and alternator.... well, maybe just a water pump, if that's possible.  Idea to swap out batteries to just get thru the challenge if that makes or breaks the budget.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
2/8/19 10:28 a.m.
Indy-Guy said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Point taken. Any specific books you'd like to recommend?

Also, the conversational culture that GRM has developed, is a great way to transfer information.  I've learned a Metric ton from following along and "ease dropping" on the back and forth others have had here in various threads.  How else would I have come to love the Bi-Turbo wink

I don't have any specific books to recommend, I just know that my editor at Motorbooks wrote one a few years ago :)

Nothing wrong with the conversational culture at GRM, it's just that there is SO much potential info on LS swaps that it's probably good to get a quality overview to get the lay of the land, so to speak. And while they are passe, books are good for that.

My MG swap (http://slowcarfast.com/MG/) was done by buying a complete car, taking what I wanted and tossing out the rest. No aftermarket parts other than the radiator, fuel pump and custom axles. I did have to build a bunch of stuff, and it wasn't Challenge priced because I wasn't trying to build a Challenge car.

RacetruckRon
RacetruckRon Reader
2/8/19 10:56 a.m.

The conversions thread on LS1Tech is probably the best place to start.  The stickies are a good read for general dimensional info and they breakdown the Lego like simplicity of the Gen3 and 4 GM small block. 

You pretty much have to stay with an auto trans for challenge budget but there are a few options out there for 3 pedal setups without dropping 3-5k for a T56.  Adapter kits exist for both the AR5 from the Pontiac Solstice and CD009 from the 350Z.  Both are relatively strong transmissions that can be found at relatively affordable prices.  There's a few other transmissions out there that will work with the LS motor those are just 2 of the more popular ones I could think of.

Welcome to the world of LS swaps. Pretty much everything with these engines has been done before and beaten to death. 

edizzle89
edizzle89 SuperDork
2/8/19 12:24 p.m.

I think people have put a GM T5 behind a LS before. Yes they aren't strong but in something light like a TR4 I'd think it would atleast get you through the challenge.

Andy Neuman
Andy Neuman Dork
2/8/19 12:34 p.m.

In reply to Indy-Guy :

Don't steal my alternator Turbo idea. 

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