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Patrick
Patrick MegaDork
3/2/19 8:21 p.m.

It’s slated for the datsun in a couple months so that my $10 ls1 intake can be put onto a different challenge car.  

DILYSI Dave
DILYSI Dave MegaDork
3/3/19 9:28 a.m.

Thinking of weeding the stock harness for a swap versus the expense of a swap harness. The lt1 site says you still need to pay for vats elimination. How can that be avoided. Keep the key and ignition switch from the donor?

Patrick
Patrick MegaDork
3/3/19 10:03 a.m.

There are bypass modules or resistors available designed to work around the vats/passkey system for remote start kits and swaps.  i used one successfully in the past, search passkey bypass on ebay and it’s a little 4 wire module with an led on it and under $25 shipped 

Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
3/3/19 10:17 a.m.
Stampie said:

I have questions for the LSers.

Is most of the mixing and matching of parts to help a swap fit or for performance?

I know there's no replacement for displacement but the 5.3s seem to be most common. Given a factory sealed 5.3 of a generic year how much HP/TQ are you looking at once tuned? 

Is it worth it seeking out the special all Aluminum 6.0 and if so how much HP/TQ tuned like the 5.3 above?

The 5.3 was the one with an aluminum variant.

 

I'd personally want to throw a 4.8 rotating assembly in an aluminum 5.3.  Maybe an LS4 because those are worthless used.  I think I have a way of mounting a starter, and the 4.8 crank would allow normal accessories and flywheel to be used.

 

I just so happen to have an LS3 Camaro oilpan in the Batcave, and most of the makin's for the starter mount I envision.

DeadSkunk
DeadSkunk PowerDork
3/3/19 10:26 a.m.
Stampie said:

Is it worth it seeking out the special all Aluminum 6.0 and if so how much HP/TQ tuned like the 5.3 above?

I missed a Trailblazer SS engine and transmission about 6 weeks ago. Engine is a 6.0 aluminum block LS2. They don't come up often and I should have jumped all over it. Factory rated at 390 horsepower, so low 400s should be a breeze if you can snare one .

Indy-Guy
Indy-Guy UberDork
3/3/19 8:32 p.m.

Forget the wiring/harness connection.  Will gen III truck LS injectors physically fit / interchange into the car manifolds and fuel rails? (LS1, LS2, LS4 etc) ?

Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
3/3/19 8:38 p.m.
Indy-Guy said:

Forget the wiring/harness connection.  Will gen III truck LS injectors physically fit / interchange into the car manifolds and fuel rails? (LS1, LS2, LS4 etc) ?

There are (at least) three different lengths of injectors.  Truck are different from LS1.

 

There's a very good interchange guide at the Nook and Tranny website (with lots of pictures, and dimensions,and part numbers!) as well as at the lt1swap site.

 

Hotlinked from Nook and Tranny:

 

https://www.nookandtranny.com/Info_LSx.php

 

 

Patrick
Patrick MegaDork
3/3/19 8:45 p.m.

They make spacers for truck injectors to car intake/rails.  

Indy-Guy
Indy-Guy PowerDork
11/24/19 12:26 p.m.

Another question:

The LS oil pan gasket is metal with a rubber "O-Ring" like sealing surface. Can I reuse it?

(I don't want the Challenge budget hit of buying a new one unless absolutely necessary)

Patrick
Patrick MegaDork
11/24/19 12:32 p.m.

Yes.  It is riveted to the pan, drill the head off the rivets and clean your gasket up.  Add a thin line of rtv if you think it's questionable.  I have never bought a new pan gasket 

Indy-Guy
Indy-Guy PowerDork
11/24/19 12:46 p.m.

Thanks.

This one wasn't riveted to the pan. Does that mean the engine has been opened up?

Patrick
Patrick MegaDork
11/24/19 12:51 p.m.

Highly likely.  

Daylan C
Daylan C PowerDork
11/24/19 12:54 p.m.

Mine wasn't rivited but it was also a new aftermarket replacement pan. I've heard of stock pans actually weeping oil after a few years so the pan may have been replaced.

Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
11/24/19 1:13 p.m.

If the engine had over 150-200k and the gasket was not leaking, it was replaced for sure.  They always start to drool with vigor around the oil passages over the filter.

Curtis
Curtis UltimaDork
11/25/19 10:28 a.m.
oldopelguy said:

Also, the new FITech standalone LSx computer and harness with tuner for $750 is almost the easy button for a swap,  especially since it comes with a 3 bar map sensor that can handle boost. 

Definitely an easy button.  I was going that direction but I learned a great deal from a guy at Summit who is a FiTech user.  He tunes some of his own stuff, but the more complex tunes (boost, race, etc) he wants to use a shop that does FiTech tuning.  Evidently, FT doesn't have any, there are just some shops with "a guy" who does FiTech, but there are no sanctioned, approved FT places.  He has been frustrated with the "thanks for buying our product, now you're completely on your own" attitude.

I'm doing a factory ECM, mostly because they do everything and do it well.  Everything is hackable, they're cheap, and the aftermarket support (finding a tuner) is super easy.  If you go factory ECM, make sure you get one that does the things you need.  They are not all necessarily the same.  For instance, cable throttle vehicles have a driver on the PCB for an IAC.  Drive-by-wire vehicles might have the driver, might not have the driver.  There are also rare instances where two ECMs with the same part number might not have the exact same hardware.  The ECMs are similar enough that they can interchange in most situations, but I have seen some ECMs with the same PN, and one has the IAC driver and the other does not.  

Curtis
Curtis UltimaDork
11/25/19 10:44 a.m.
Stampie said:

I have questions for the LSers.

Is most of the mixing and matching of parts to help a swap fit or for performance?

I know there's no replacement for displacement but the 5.3s seem to be most common. Given a factory sealed 5.3 of a generic year how much HP/TQ are you looking at once tuned? 

Is it worth it seeking out the special all Aluminum 6.0 and if so how much HP/TQ tuned like the 5.3 above?

I personally went with an Iron 6.0L.  It is still ridiculously lighter than the Pontiac 326 it is replacing and I didn't have to pay unobtainium prices for the assembly.  If you can spare the modest extra weight of the iron block, it will save you potentially thousands of dollars on go-fast and swap parts.

I picked up my LQ9 (which is the high-output 6.0L in Escalades, Avalanches, etc) with 36k on the clock and it came with everything... wiring, ECM, throttle driver, the works.... for $1000 with a warranty.  Good luck finding a trashed longblock aluminum core for that price.

Mix-n-match can be for performance or swap.  317 heads from 6.0L trucks are somewhat common swaps because it gets you the LS6 ports with a slightly larger chamber.  I did 243 heads from a GTO because I actually wanted higher compression and then had them ported.

I strongly suggest just ponying up for the right oil pan, the right engine mounts, and an accessory drive that works.  The GM muscle oil pan will hang below most crossmembers meaning it will be the first to meet the pavement.  F-body pans will require crossmember surgery.  Just pony up the money and get the pan that works.

F-body accessories keep things nice and tucked low, but AC compressors won't clear the cross member. Truck accessory drives put things higher which clears most cross members, but may cause hood clearance. 

Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
11/25/19 11:46 a.m.

In reply to Curtis :

Every GenIII/IV (except LS4 because weirdball) puts the air conditioning compressor in the same place, whether truck or F body or Corvette or anything else.  They even gave it its own belt because they knew it would always be right there.

 

This was 100% intentional.  Remember how the compressors seemed to last two years, three tops, when mounted on the intake manifold on the 4.3/5.0/5.7 engines?  Turns out that oil doesn't like to get pushed up hill by the refrigerant, so the compressors were pumping themselves dry when the refrigerant would flow the oil out, but the oil would never get back to the compressor. Making the compressor a low point in the system helps keep the oil in them.

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) PowerDork
11/25/19 4:41 p.m.

I was looking at bare 5.3 aluminum blocks for sale locally @ $175 each. There was a $150 4.8. Thoughts of combining the two to create a high revving ,light 4.8 crossed my mind. Add a higher lift OEM cam for some 8000 RPM noise. 

Patrick
Patrick MegaDork
11/25/19 5:28 p.m.

In reply to DeadSkunk (Warren) :

The thought has crossed my mind to get a 4.8 crank and rods for my 6.0 with the broken crank

Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
11/25/19 5:36 p.m.
DeadSkunk (Warren) said:

I was looking at bare 5.3 aluminum blocks for sale locally @ $175 each. There was a $150 4.8. Thoughts of combining the two to create a high revving ,light 4.8 crossed my mind. Add a higher lift OEM cam for some 8000 RPM noise. 

I like the idea for the potential inertial benefits.  The LS engines are RPM limited by the valvetrain, not the bottom end.  Since the top end gets exponentially more expensive as you go over 7000, most people just up the displacement or hang turbos on them, or both.  (Wildest ride I ever experienced has a 421ci LS with 9 pounds of boost... it was hydraulically effortless in how it accelerated, no drama at all)

 

Guy I used to work with wanted a 9000rpm LS1 for his NB.  After realizing that the valvetrain would cost about as much as the rest of the engine, and the rest of the car, he toned it down a bit.

Daylan C
Daylan C PowerDork
11/25/19 6:26 p.m.

In reply to Knurled. :

Efi university recently built an LS7 based engine that revved to 11,230rpm. I imagine the money spent on it in hundreds probably weighs as much as the block.

Ranger50
Ranger50 UltimaDork
11/25/19 6:44 p.m.

In reply to Knurled. :

As long as you're putting in 9/16" pushrods with a needle diameter oil hole and ls7 style heads... shouldn't be a problem.

Indy-Guy
Indy-Guy PowerDork
12/19/19 2:51 p.m.

Another question guys:

Do the Drive by wire throttle bodies interchange with the drive by wire pedals?

 

And specifically can I use the newer drive by wire throttle body with my existing '04 Truck wiring and pedal?

Trade this style:

For this style (or similar):

 

I know one is  a three bolt flange and the other is four bolt (so will need a plate adapter), but the wiring is what concerns me.

Hood clearance is the main reason I'm asking.  The truck one is much taller

Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
12/20/19 8:27 a.m.

That's a big no...  There are basically two flavors of drive by wire, and they mostly coincide with whether the PCM uses a TAC module (three bolt, two connector) or the throttle body is controlled directly by the PCM.

 

TAC modules aren't interchangable either, I forget if they have to follow the pedal or the PCM or the throttle body.  I can respect why most swappers who run the older intakes just convert to drive by cable.

Patrick
Patrick MegaDork
12/20/19 9:42 a.m.

You need to try to keep the pedal/tac/throttle body together from the donor or they get mad. Mine even got mad and went to limp mode after 30 seconds because I shortened the tac to pedal harness.  Like work perfectly then engine light with no pedal function.  In the interest of challenge car needing done i yoinked all that and rewired for iac/tps, flashed the pcm and put in a cable throttle body.  The 03-07 vans are from what i can tell the only one pcm that has the switch in the program and the ability to run either way.  

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