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Indy-Guy
Indy-Guy PowerDork
12/20/19 10:31 a.m.

In reply to Knurled. & Patrick :

So.... realistically, looks like my best options are to either switch to Cable throttle body, or figure out how to physically get the current drive by wire down lower.

 

Just spit balling here:  Can the throttle body be rotated (clocked) downward about 45 degrees with the use of an adapter plate? Or does the actuation rod on the butterfly need to be horizontal to function properly?

 

Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
12/20/19 11:50 a.m.

It doesn't care about position.  The motor is STRONG, like chop vegetables with the throttle plate strong.

Patrick
Patrick MegaDork
12/20/19 12:48 p.m.

Yeah for reference check out the holley hi-ram intake

84FSP
84FSP SuperDork
12/29/19 9:33 a.m.
Patrick said:

They make spacers for truck injectors to car intake/rails.  

The adapters are cheap enough to make it a non-issue.  I've used two different sets of adapted injectors on my ls.  Currently using 42# Ls7 injectors (bought for $70 as take off's) adapted back to LS2 fuel rails.  You can find good used oem injectors far cheaper tha am new aftermarket.

Error404
Error404 Reader
12/29/19 10:54 a.m.

I don't have much in the way of specific technical information to add to this discussion but, while learning about the LS in the Mustang I bought, I have come across some helpful, more general info. I have a 4.8 LY2 (It's an "LS" to everyone but gearheads) that was modded just enough to get it driving more like a car than a van/truck. Corvette intake manifold (of unknown vintage), CTS-V oil pan (of unknown vintage), an "LS3" cam, Summit valve springs, and various other tidbits of weirdness from the Ford perspective. It's bolted up to a T5 with an SFI bellhousing and the clutch from a Tiger tank, I think. A lot of people express concerns about a T5 but, from what I've read they're generally fine so long as you outright abuse it. Ignore the bit in my post about where I'm tearing mine apart for a  rebuild after 1 weekend, that's probably on me.

If you can get a stock ECM/TCM (GM so it's a module not a unit, makes a world of difference indecision) with your engine, then that would probably be the easiest. A license and dongle for HPTuners, if you want to do it yourself, will run you about $300. You can DIY a MegaSquirt for not much more. Depending on the vintage of your engine/TCM, and your intended transmission, you might need to spend a lot of time figuring out how to keep the TCM happy. Mine isn't and it appears to be the cause of approx. 2500 lost RPMs. I can't rev past about 4100 when I should be able to rev to 6500 with no problem. It did, for a time, after I bought the car and then altogether stopped. Mine is a fully running, with that notable exception, swap and I'm buying a MS2 next month to build and put in. That's the kind of pain in the rear that an unhappy TCM can cause you. From what I've been able to dig up, the '04-'08 TCMs were when GM was rolling in GMLAN protocol so the TCM has to be powered, in the loop, and happy all the time. They also, apparently, did not bother to make them very electrically robust, so they can fry easily. My TCM was paired would have been paired with the 4L60E.

It looks like you're getting past the general info stage but I'll drop this link here, since it might help and can't really hurt. One of the only quality posts I've found with actual LY2 goodness instead of LSx. http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/engines-drivetrain/1503-how-to-get-384-hp-out-of-a-4-8l-engine-mini-mouse-part-1/

Patrick: Can you elaborate on that dead pedal limp mode thing-y? I've had that a few times and it goes away after about 5 minutes with the car turned off but it's very unsettling to me, knowing that it's lurking in there somewhere. Is this something that will just go away with my MS2 swap or do I need to address it on it's own?

Patrick
Patrick MegaDork
12/29/19 11:16 a.m.

I didn't have time to figure it out.  It was about 2 weeks pre 2016 challenge when i was fighting to get the car done, so it was easier to repin the electric throttle body wiring to the iac and tps plugs and slap on a cable throttle body and change the computer.  The 03-07 van pcm is the only one where you can flip some switches in hptuners and control either one.  I gather it was from angry electrons in the spliced harness and pissed off canbus stuff not getting precisely the correct resistance, but I cannot confirm.  I am planning to go to pull a part next time they have some vans and pull the computers and tac modules/pedals/harnesses because it's way easier than making a cable pedal work.  I did keep all the stuff i pulled out.  
 

currently have an lm7 on the stand and an ly6 that's hopefully a crankshaft away from being a 500hp NA engine for around $1000 all in

Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
12/29/19 11:55 a.m.

Not ALL the van computers have the circuits to control an IAC.  Some do (every one with drive by cable of course) but it isn't a given.

Scotty Con Queso
Scotty Con Queso Dork
3/25/20 4:44 p.m.

Can't seem to get a clear answer on this. Can a reworked stock truck harness used as a standalone be used to control a 4l60/80e with a stock PCM?

Ive asked this question and usually get an answer like "get the gold box" or "get a Terminator X."  

Daylan C
Daylan C PowerDork
3/26/20 9:22 a.m.

In reply to Scotty Con Queso :

Before the Terminator X, that was the preferred setup if you were using an electronic auto. All the companies that sell a pre-cut harness will ask if you are using a 4l60e or 4l80e and it will have the transmission wiring too. That's what I plan on using in my GTA with a 4l80e, probably cutting my own harness though. 

I will say that I haven't personally done it yet. 

Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
3/26/20 9:36 a.m.
Scotty Con Queso said:

Can't seem to get a clear answer on this. Can a reworked stock truck harness used as a standalone be used to control a 4l60/80e with a stock PCM?

Ive asked this question and usually get an answer like "get the gold box" or "get a Terminator X."  

The diffrence between a 4L60 harness and a 4L80 harness is literally about two wires and one connector.  These are even available as a conversion kit, complete with a trans connector conversion harness for if you don't feel like repinning a transmission connector.  (Besides having the same connector with a different pinout, the 4L80 has an input and an output speed sensor, while the 4L60 only has an output speed sensor.  99% of the time you can use HPTuners to put a 4L80 operating system segment into any LS-engine PCM)

 

AFAIK the only PCMs that cannot natively contol a 4L80 for hardware reasons are '98 F-body, and probably similar year Corvette.  I did an LS swap on a '97 Camaro using a '98 drivetrain and had to source a '99 computer and harness to make it work because the swapper wanted a 4L80 and supplied all the parts, and '98 LS1s are cheap for a reason.

Scotty Con Queso
Scotty Con Queso Dork
3/26/20 12:16 p.m.

In reply to Knurled. :

Thank you! 

Indy "Nub" Guy
Indy "Nub" Guy PowerDork
11/20/20 6:30 p.m.

Does the facotry ECU need the O2 sensors?

The reason I'm asking is I'm getting ready to build my exhaust system for LS swapped TR4 on a challenge budget.  Do I need to weld in the O2 bungs?  I thougt they would be required, but a co-worker of mine suggested leaving them out.  He said that "O2 sensor delete" is a thing on performance builds?

What's the consensus?

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
11/20/20 6:44 p.m.

O2 sensors are a good idea, so your ECU can fine-tune fuel delivery in real time. There's no reason to delete them and lots of good reasons to keep them.

He may be talking about removing the rear O2 sensors and turning them off in software so the ECU doesn't notice you don't have cats. 

Indy "Nub" Guy
Indy "Nub" Guy PowerDork
11/20/20 6:50 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Thanks for the quick response.  I'll plan to get them in there some how.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
11/20/20 7:05 p.m.

I'd put in a bung on at least one exhaust for a wide band. So that's three total. You can always plug them. 

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
11/20/20 9:19 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I have never DONE it, but HPT can read a wideband and incorporate it into data logs for tuning purposes.  The PCM won't be able to do anything with it but you, the tuner, can have its data.

 

I know you can wire one externally to the HPT dongle, or alternatively I have heard of the ability to wire it in to one of the unused inputs in the PCM and HPT can be told how to interpret it.  The computer still won't be able to use it for real time fuel trim, unless that's changed too.  HPT has custom operating systems for the popular PCMs and I haven't paid attention to what they have done for a few years.

Scotty Con Queso
Scotty Con Queso SuperDork
11/21/20 11:42 a.m.

Does anyone have any experience with LS Droid? Seems that HP Tuners gate keeping has made it impossible to tuner other ECUs. 

Patrick (Forum Supporter)
Patrick (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
11/21/20 1:09 p.m.

In reply to Scotty Con Queso :

Never heard of it but i'll try it at some point.  I have hptuners already 

Furious_E (Forum Supporter)
Furious_E (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
11/21/20 1:25 p.m.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

You need HPT Pro to wire it directly to the dongle, but it's really easy to wire it through the PCM if you're a cheapskate like me. Just run a wire from the wideband output to either the pin for EGR pintle position, or I think AC pressure switch is the other commonly used one, at the PCM. Lt1swap.com should have the wiring diagram to tell you which pin you need. You need to do some things in VCM Scanner then to grab the output and scale it, as well as set up graphs that are useful for tuning, but there are a bunch of tutorials out there.  Trust me, if I can do it, so can you. I have a link bookmarked on my laptop i think, I'll post it later if I can remember.

I do not recommend trying to tune off of fuel trims, you definitely want a wideband.

Somebeach (Forum Supporter)
Somebeach (Forum Supporter) Reader
12/3/20 12:36 p.m.

If you just wanted to yank an engine and transmission from a truck and use the engine and transmission to plop down into a RWD car do you need to find just a RWD donor or could you use a 4x4 donor? 

 

I am not sure how the transfer case plays into all this. 

Indy "Nub" Guy
Indy "Nub" Guy PowerDork
12/3/20 12:49 p.m.

In reply to Somebeach (Forum Supporter) :

If you want to use everything "as is" from a single donor, you'll need to start with a Rear Wheel Drive Truck.

 

The 4 wheel drive trucks have the transfer case bolted directly to the back of the transmission, so at a minimum you would either need a different (RWD) transmission, or change the tail shaft housing out for one that accepts a slip yoke.

 

edit to add pic:

84FSP
84FSP UltraDork
12/3/20 1:23 p.m.
Indy-Guy said:

Another question guys:

Do the Drive by wire throttle bodies interchange with the drive by wire pedals?

 

And specifically can I use the newer drive by wire throttle body with my existing '04 Truck wiring and pedal?

Trade this style:

For this style (or similar):

 

I know one is  a three bolt flange and the other is four bolt (so will need a plate adapter), but the wiring is what concerns me.

Hood clearance is the main reason I'm asking.  The truck one is much taller

The 102 chinese dbw tbody off Ebay has been magic for like $89 and plugged irght into my LS2 and Fast 102 intake.  Realize the Fast isn't challenge budget but a quality GRM'r could plastic weld up a flange to make it work.

RACEC4R
RACEC4R New Reader
12/3/20 1:55 p.m.
Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
12/3/20 1:58 p.m.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I have never DONE it, but HPT can read a wideband and incorporate it into data logs for tuning purposes.  The PCM won't be able to do anything with it but you, the tuner, can have its data.

 

I know you can wire one externally to the HPT dongle, or alternatively I have heard of the ability to wire it in to one of the unused inputs in the PCM and HPT can be told how to interpret it.  The computer still won't be able to use it for real time fuel trim, unless that's changed too.  HPT has custom operating systems for the popular PCMs and I haven't paid attention to what they have done for a few years.

Missed this the first time round. I've done that, my wideband was wired into the HPT dongle so I could log both.

Indy "Nub" Guy
Indy "Nub" Guy PowerDork
1/17/21 11:39 a.m.

Fuel system needed for LS swap.

Here's the criteria:

  • Capable of supporting 300 to 350hp
  • "Dead-Head" return less system
  • Gas tank in swap vehicle (TR4) only has a single line coming out of the bottom of the tank, so no provisions for a return line.
  • Cheap.  This is on a Challenge Budget

What are my options?

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