3 4 5 6
Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter)
Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/17/21 11:46 a.m.

In reply to Indy "Nub" Guy :

Surge tank, e2000 rail pump, return to a bulkhead fitting in the top of the tank, vette fpr/filter

All available on ebay CHEAP.

rustomatic
rustomatic Reader
1/17/21 5:22 p.m.

What Michael said above, but skip the C5 filter/regulator thing.  They suck, and not in a good way.  Just get an adjustable eBay regulator that comes with all of the crappy fittings and hose.  Buy a proper inline filter for a few bucks (20?).  Welding skills and a willingness to blow yourself up might net you savings on a modified tank that can resist surge (weld in a dog bowl with holes/place proper pump there).  If you do a surge tank, pump should go inside of said tank.

Secondarily, some have gotten by with inline pumps; there are factory examples, at least in a Ford (van?) sense, that mounted on the frame rails.  If you're only doing the Challenge, it will probably not burn up in the time you need to "perform."

RacetruckRon
RacetruckRon Dork
1/17/21 7:47 p.m.
rustomatic said:

What Michael said above, but skip the C5 filter/regulator thing.  They suck, and not in a good way.  Just get an adjustable eBay regulator that comes with all of the crappy fittings and hose. 

+1 on this. I have one of those Corvette filter/regulators on my truck and it is just plain garbage at regulating fuel pressure.  LS base fuel pressure is supposed to be 58psi, my regulator runs in a wide range of 62-80psi with a Walbro 450.   The big pump is probably not helping that but I think a cheap adjustable regulator would better suit a returnless fuel system.

 

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
1/17/21 7:50 p.m.

In reply to rustomatic :

I used to hurt inline fuel pumps until I made a swirl pot/surge tank to feed the fuel pump, that in turn was fed by a cheapo carb fuel pump to act as a lift pump.  Then, I had no more problems.

 

Sucking air is apparently hurts them.  No more sucking air, no more problem.

 

 

The carb fuel pump pulls fuel from the tank and feeds the fitting roughly halfway up.  The fuel then goes through the bottom fitting to the high pressure pump.  The fuel return from the engine goes to the fitting roughly 1/4-way up, so maximize the amount of time before the fuel in the "pipe bomb" starts getting aerated by return fuel entering above the fuel level.  The top fitting is the return to the tank.

 

It's all just 2" (I think) pipe fittings, NPT-to-5/16" double flare adaptors, and 5/16" double flare line.  Could have done it in 3/8", but the rest of the system is done in 8mm, and 8mm isn't a hindrance to flow until well past the power I will be making, so I left well enough alone.  I calculated the internal volume at 700CC, which, at the rates I use fuel, means I could run for 20-30 seconds at peak power with the lift pump sucking air before I finally encountered fuel starvation.

Indy "Nub" Guy
Indy "Nub" Guy PowerDork
1/17/21 9:22 p.m.

Thanks for the thoughts guys.  Let me spell it out, so I have it all straight in my mind.

  • Use current tank in the car
  • pull fuel from current tank with a "clicky-clack" type low pressure electric carb fuel pump that is dead-head routed to supply the swirl tank.
  • Use a submersable fuel pump in the swirl pot as pictured  (like this unit on ebay for $66)

 

 

  • Line out from the swirl tank that has an Adjustable fuel regulator and dead head line to fuel rail
  • Pump will self -recirculate in the swirl tank

Do I have this right?

 

loosecannon
loosecannon SuperDork
1/17/21 9:59 p.m.

I just bought an LS for my 1969 Suburban so I'll need to comb through this thread for the info I need

Somebeach (Forum Supporter)
Somebeach (Forum Supporter) HalfDork
1/18/21 7:41 a.m.

In reply to Indy "Nub" Guy :

What is dead head mean in this application, just no return line? 

Indy "Nub" Guy
Indy "Nub" Guy PowerDork
1/18/21 7:55 a.m.

In reply to Somebeach (Forum Supporter) :

Yes, return less.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
1/18/21 9:43 a.m.

I would not make it returnless.  There'd be no way for air to bleed out, and the lift pump would add its own pressure since the return from the regulator would have a 1-6psi force on it (kind of like how the FMU pressure booster things worked).

 

The junkyard way would be to find a CIS Golf fuel pump module.  It's a 1 liter box with a huge Bosch fuel pump in it.  Unfortunately, to buy the parts new would be REALLY expensive.  The canister itself was a $250 part when they were available in the 90s.

frenchyd
frenchyd PowerDork
1/18/21 10:59 a.m.
Run_Away said:

Following with interest. I have two vehicles in my fleet that I'd love to LS swap ('69 C10 and '98 K1500).

 

I've been monitoring the insurance auctions locally and figure I should be able to buy an ambulance or 3/4 ton full size van for $600-$800 CAD. I'm targeting those because a) 99% of the trucks around here are 4WD and the C10 is 2WD b) I want a 4L80 rather than a 4L60. I'm envisioning a sloppy style turbo setup in the C10.

 

The other option for swaps is the local U-pull yard. I've heard of a few L33s being found there, but it's otherwise all iron block truck motors. If you're planning on doing a cam swap anyways, better to buy an AFM motor and spend $225 on a delete kit or stick with the older 5.3s? Are all AFM engines gen 4? I suppose if I was looking for boost the gen 4 would be the winner, always.

If I had a full day at the junkyard I suppose I could disassemble to engines and swap around internals to "build" the best combo of internals with the available engines and walk out only paying for $300 CAD for single "complete" engine.

Look outside of Chevy's for a LS. Down in Ark on the IAAI site there is a LS swapped 1976 JaguarXJS  because of the swap Jaguar buyers won't want it and Chevy buyers won't be looking at Jaguars for engines. So somebody will pick up a good looking XJS REALLY CHEAP. 

frenchyd
frenchyd PowerDork
1/18/21 11:31 a.m.
frenchyd said:
Run_Away said:

Following with interest. I have two vehicles in my fleet that I'd love to LS swap ('69 C10 and '98 K1500).

 

I've been monitoring the insurance auctions locally and figure I should be able to buy an ambulance or 3/4 ton full size van for $600-$800 CAD. I'm targeting those because a) 99% of the trucks around here are 4WD and the C10 is 2WD b) I want a 4L80 rather than a 4L60. I'm envisioning a sloppy style turbo setup in the C10.

 

The other option for swaps is the local U-pull yard. I've heard of a few L33s being found there, but it's otherwise all iron block truck motors. If you're planning on doing a cam swap anyways, better to buy an AFM motor and spend $225 on a delete kit or stick with the older 5.3s? Are all AFM engines gen 4? I suppose if I was looking for boost the gen 4 would be the winner, always.

If I had a full day at the junkyard I suppose I could disassemble to engines and swap around internals to "build" the best combo of internals with the available engines and walk out only paying for $300 CAD for single "complete" engine.

Look outside of Chevy's for a LS. Down in Ark on the IAAI site there is a LS swapped 1976 JaguarXJS  because of the swap Jaguar buyers won't want it and Chevy buyers won't be looking at Jaguars for engines. So somebody will pick up a good looking XJS REALLY CHEAP. 

Oops I miswrote some details. It's a CorvetteLS  in the 76 jag XJS and the engine looks good  but the XJS needs a new hood and right front fender. 

Indy "Nub" Guy
Indy "Nub" Guy PowerDork
1/21/21 8:39 p.m.

Pete, I'm just not understanding it ? Do you have a resource you can direct me towards to understand it better?

 

I've got an old pre-emissions tank.  Fill neck up top, single line out the bottom of the tank.  How do I get from that to the swirl tank without a pump or pressurized system?

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
1/21/21 10:11 p.m.

In reply to Indy "Nub" Guy :

You do not want to dead-head anything.  The top of the swirl pot device must be able to bleed air or fuel back to the tank.

Indy "Nub" Guy
Indy "Nub" Guy PowerDork
1/22/21 6:21 a.m.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Ok, Thanks for that.  I was trying to get a way to not have to add a return line back into the original gas tank.  Looks like that's not possible, which makes me sad.    ===> off to brainstorm ideas about getting fuel back into the tank.

Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter)
Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/22/21 6:35 a.m.
Indy "Nub" Guy
Indy "Nub" Guy PowerDork
1/22/21 7:36 a.m.

In reply to Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter) :

yes thanks

Indy "Nub" Guy
Indy "Nub" Guy PowerDork
1/24/21 3:35 p.m.

Does anyone have their LS out and on the bench?  I need to drill out my block for the oil dipstick tube.  Could someone measure that hole in the lower side of their block and let me know?

 

Thanks.

 

Sonic
Sonic UltraDork
1/24/21 4:02 p.m.

3/8".  I have the dipstick tube out of the car right now so it was easy to measure.  

Indy "Nub" Guy
Indy "Nub" Guy PowerDork
1/24/21 4:12 p.m.

In reply to Sonic :

Awesome.  Thanks!

 

Scotty Con Queso
Scotty Con Queso SuperDork
1/25/21 10:14 a.m.

I know it's not very grassroots when there are other much cheaper options out there, but I'm going to buy the Holley Terminator X. It's impossible to beat the ease of tunability and price. 

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
1/25/21 10:23 a.m.

In reply to Scotty Con Queso :

That depends on goals.  If you want a driver with mostly stock parts, maybe header and camshaft to where you only need to tweak a couple things, it is really hard to beat the OE computer, which is extremely swap friendly and self-contained harness wise.

If you want to play with drag specific features, then yeah, OE won't really get you there without bandaids.

Scotty Con Queso
Scotty Con Queso SuperDork
1/25/21 10:38 a.m.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

I guess I should have prefaced. Yes, stock computer on a set it and forget it is a great option. My problem is I know I won't leave it alone and I really don't want to go down the road of learning to learn complete tuning of HP or LS droid. 

RacetruckRon
RacetruckRon Dork
1/25/21 10:44 a.m.
Scotty Con Queso said:

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

I guess I should have prefaced. Yes, stock computer on a set it and forget it is a great option. My problem is I know I won't leave it alone and I really don't want to go down the road of learning to learn complete tuning of HP or LS droid. 

You won't regret going Terminator X.  It is so user friendly and easy to change every parameter.  Stock computer is great for a challenge budget or if you are familiar with  HP Tuners and want to retain cruise control.  I went Terminator X because HP Tuners was half the price of a TermX and has a god awful user interface.   Plenty of resources for learning the Holley interface and parameters on Youtube. Read through the instruction a couple times before you start the install and you won't have any issues.

Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter)
Dusterbd13-michael (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
1/25/21 10:45 a.m.

Is there a good user guide for hp tuners?

yupididit
yupididit PowerDork
1/25/21 11:06 a.m.

In reply to Scotty Con Queso :

Terminator X is what a buddy recommended for my XJS

3 4 5 6
Our Preferred Partners
ozXqCDUkStaNmPu7jkZekiXAg6DapX7jUL5Cs9qbdneoWfJNSPJMGQaaO6fMnCdv