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Jerry
Jerry SuperDork
10/10/14 7:13 a.m.

I had the opportunity to work with a very grumpy 70something gentleman on a corner at the Rallycross National Championship last weekend. Many delays = stuck with this clown for hours. (Luckily the other 2 guys were cool, yes, we had 4 on our corner).

But one thing he said was how "these autocross guys want to get all excited about an event saying 'we're going to be racing soon'. That's not berkeleying racing. Bunch of cones in a parking lot"... I would assume he felt the same about RX, being at a RX event, but he never said. Too busy being grumpy about other things.

I've heard this from a few other Club racers in my region. Mostly other grumpy men. What do you think? The dictionary says "race 2 (rs) n. 1. Sports a. A competition of speed, as in running or riding."

Wikipedia says "In sport, racing is a competition of speed, against an objective criterion, usually a clock or to a specific point. The competitors in a race try to complete a given task in the shortest amount of time. Typically this involves traversing some distance, but it can be any other task involving speed to reach a specific goal.

A race may be run continuously from start to finish or may be made of several segments called heats, stages or legs. A heat is usually run over the same course at different times. A stage is a shorter section of a much longer course or a time trial."

It may not be head-to-head, but it sounds like auto and rallycross qualify to me. Discuss!

jstein77
jstein77 SuperDork
10/10/14 7:16 a.m.

Install said clown into a passenger seat. Proceed to scare the snot out of him on an autocross course. Then ask him if its racing or not.

Case in point: Scared novice

wbjones
wbjones UltimaDork
10/10/14 7:17 a.m.

well …. according to the SCCA autocrossing, by definition isn't racing, it's a car control event .. or something like that … if it were defined as racing the ins. would be impacted … yeah, semantics I know … but the wording does matter …

I a-x and TT … and while I call it racing, I do know better… it is a competition, using cars and speed/timing … but I've also done w2w … totally different

Klayfish
Klayfish UltraDork
10/10/14 7:29 a.m.

wbjones has the right idea, I pretty much agree. Yes, by definition autox is racing. I did it for years, and it's fun. At the same time, it's a very different form of racing from wheel to wheel. One of the reasons I stopped autoxing was the people who took it waaaaay too seriously, as if it were a professional money paying race.

In all the types of racing I've done, I always keep it in perspective. It's a hobby. While I want to post the best lap I can, or pass the car in front of me, I do this for fun. When I was autoxing, I enjoyed it and it was an adrenaline rush, but it is what it is...going through cones in a parking lot.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker MegaDork
10/10/14 7:29 a.m.
Jerry wrote: I've heard this from a few other Club racers in my region. Mostly other grumpy men. What do you think?

When all I knew was auto-x I took offense and defended it when people said that. Then I did time attack. Then I went wheel to wheel racing.

Now I consider it the cheap, safe alternative to real racing. THe kickball of motorsports

Dashpot
Dashpot Reader
10/10/14 7:30 a.m.

My opinion -

Real auto racing is door to door competition - using "racecraft" to pass your opponents on the track. Whether road course, ovals, karts & dirt tracks - they are all real racing.

Time trials are good for working on driving skills - a component of racing skills. Great entry level to the motorsports world, but not real racing.

Autocross is a nice, fun low speed driving skills exercise. Not real racing in my book.

Does that make me grumpy?

Klayfish
Klayfish UltraDork
10/10/14 7:33 a.m.
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: When all I knew was auto-x I took offense and defended it when people said that. Then I did time attack. Then I went wheel to wheel racing. Now I consider it the cheap, safe alternative to real racing. THe kickball of motorsports

Very well said. I followed the exact same progression as you, both in my "racing" and in my attitudes/thoughts.

Lof8
Lof8 Reader
10/10/14 7:38 a.m.

To me, "racing" is door-to-door on a closed circuit. However, when I talk to people who don't have a clue about motorsports, I just tell them i'm racing my car this weekend (in reference to an autocross).

I suppose by those dictionary definitions, it is indeed racing, but in my head, its not really racing.

unevolved
unevolved Dork
10/10/14 7:45 a.m.
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: Now I consider it the cheap, safe alternative to real racing. THe kickball of motorsports

That's fantastic. I'm going to shamelessly steal that and pretend I came up with it in casual conversation.

ProDarwin
ProDarwin UltraDork
10/10/14 7:48 a.m.

It absolutely is racing. Its a competition of speed. Same with RX.

Bobzilla
Bobzilla PowerDork
10/10/14 7:55 a.m.

It's a timed race, where you are in a controlled environment. Like W2W, you re trying to be faster and get to the finish line faster than your competitors. Instead of 11 slow turns over 2 minutes, we'll make 30 turns in under 60 seconds. IT's 2 completely different disciplines that require different skills and mindsets.

My take on it: Are you smiling when you get done? Did you enjoy it? If so, call it what you want because you had fun. If not, go home. You're a buzzkill for everyone else.

captdownshift
captdownshift Dork
10/10/14 7:56 a.m.

it is a competition of driver ability and skill, that while not racing, is not to be discounted. Bang for the buck there's little that beats it and most any driver and vehicle is capable of participating. I wonder why grumpalufahgus was out that complaining and not jumping behind the wheel

ProDarwin
ProDarwin UltraDork
10/10/14 8:04 a.m.

Is Stage Rally, WRC, etc. racing? Pikes Peak?

viccath5
viccath5 New Reader
10/10/14 8:06 a.m.

In reply to ProDarwin:

I agree, it is racing. "Racing" covers more than motorized vehicles and you will find racing in many venues that does not necessarily mean side by side. How about Olympic down hill skiing...is that racing? Bob sledding? IMO, just because your not on the same course at the same time doesn't mean you are not "racing". You can race against the clock and compare times and still call it "racing". Just my opinion.

Mr_Clutch42
Mr_Clutch42 Dork
10/10/14 8:10 a.m.

Autocross (and rallycross) is racing, because we do compete against each other by time. Pro solo does it head to head. If it weren't, we wouldn't have timers out there to see who's the fastest. I definitely understand that it's the lowest form of motorsports. I wonder if that old guy(and some of you guys) considered drag racing real racing.

Jerry
Jerry SuperDork
10/10/14 8:13 a.m.
Lof8 wrote: To me, "racing" is door-to-door on a closed circuit. However, when I talk to people who don't have a clue about motorsports, I just tell them i'm racing my car this weekend (in reference to an autocross). I suppose by those dictionary definitions, it is indeed racing, but in my head, its not really racing.

This. Most of my friends if I say I'm going to a rallycross this weekend, they look at me like I'm a Martian. So it's easier to just say "I have a race this weekend". Way easier to explain to the bride and her father at the wedding I shot the weekend before on why it's going to take a few weeks to complete their photos.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
10/10/14 8:18 a.m.

It's totally racing, as long as no insurance companies are listening It's a contest of speed after all.

I don't have anything against motorsports that aren't racing though, such as drifting. Or landspeed racing, which is in sort of a gray area.

DaveEstey
DaveEstey PowerDork
10/10/14 8:26 a.m.

Gotta love people who race on dedicated tracks with massive runoff space and safety barriers talking down about autocross being the "safe" sport.

Man up. Go hillclimbing/rallying.

ebonyandivory
ebonyandivory SuperDork
10/10/14 8:38 a.m.

It's only "racing" if you're driving a "sports car" too?

Yeah, and Powerlifting, Olympic lifting and Strongman aren't "sports" because you're not really competing against an individual but competing for "numbers" ie: repetitions or total weight lifted or even time.

Tell Grumpy to get a life, sheesh!

Appleseed
Appleseed MegaDork
10/10/14 8:40 a.m.

So by that rationale, land speed racing isnt racing.

tuna55
tuna55 UltimaDork
10/10/14 8:51 a.m.

People tell me about how Lemons isn't racing either. I tell them that I am out there, in a car, racing other cars, while you sit on the couch and watch reruns. I win, no matter what you call it.

Klayfish
Klayfish UltraDork
10/10/14 8:55 a.m.

The term "racing" is very subjective. Running track is "racing". My son has a Traxxas and wants to join a league where they "race" them. That's "racing" to him. Drag racing is "racing". The America's Cup (yacht racing...don't know how I pulled that out of my a$$) is "racing". When I take my 3 kids to McDonalds and they all order the same meal, they're "racing" to be the first to finish.

But for purposes of the question posed, I consider autox a very different form of racing than wheel to wheel. Not putting it down, as I said before I ran at least 50 events, and loved every one of them. I had many conversations with the average person who didn't know much about racing, because when you say "racing" to them, they don't envision cones in a parking lot.

iceracer
iceracer PowerDork
10/10/14 9:00 a.m.

To the general public "Racing" involves two or more "Units" competing against each other at the same time.

One "unit" at a time is something else.

So call it what ever you want and be cool.

Bobzilla
Bobzilla PowerDork
10/10/14 9:04 a.m.
tuna55 wrote: I tell them that I am out there, in a car, racing other cars, while you sit on the couch and watch reruns. I win, no matter what you call it.

This. Period. End of discussion.

Adrian_Thompson
Adrian_Thompson PowerDork
10/10/14 9:09 a.m.

I hate superior twatmonkeys who don't consider autocross racing. Of course it is. If you go to the Olympics and watch the men’s or women’s downhill ski race do you self-righteously tap the spectator next to you on the shoulder and point out they are not racing as they are only going one at a time and dodging flags on the hill? No, it's racing just in a different form

What about Bonneville speed week and land speed record racing? Are those Bob Costas not racing either as they are one at a time and heaven forbid only going in a straight line?

What about the 'Race to the Could's'

Heck what about the Isle of Man TT races? Those limp dicked Bob Costas don't leave the start line together like real men, they go at intervals because they are too scared to race together like big brave 'road racers'

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