bravenrace
bravenrace MegaDork
9/27/16 1:57 p.m.

At the Runoffs last weekend I was intrigued by this class, as it runs cars like the '90 Civic shell I have, and appears to allow engine swaps, based on one car I saw in the paddock.
But other than that, I know NOTHING about the class, rules, etc..
I know I can look in the GCR and other places to read the rules, but what I'm looking for is the cliff note version just to get an idea of what is involved. So if you have any experience with this class, I'd like to hear what it is/was. Thanks!

westsidetalon
westsidetalon Reader
9/27/16 5:24 p.m.
bravenrace wrote: At the Runoffs last weekend I was intrigued by this class, as it runs cars like the '90 Civic shell I have, and appears to allow engine swaps, based on one car I saw in the paddock. But other than that, I know NOTHING about the class, rules, etc.. I know I can look in the GCR and other places to read the rules, but what I'm looking for is the cliff note version just to get an idea of what is involved. So if you have any experience with this class, I'd like to hear what it is/was. Thanks!

Yes I'm in the same boat as well and was at the runoffs to check out top STL cars. Pretty much Improved Touring with more engine mod allowances, (2 liter is max engine displacement) and I believe engine swaps are permitted with weight penalties? I think you can tie in the roll cage to front strut towers. Aftermarket brakes allowed as well. Been scouring the internet for STL builds as well and there aren't to many documented. I plan on moving to this class (currently race ITS acura integra) but still a little confused as well.

bravenrace
bravenrace MegaDork
9/28/16 10:38 a.m.

Bump in case the right person missed this topic.

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
9/28/16 12:16 p.m.

For what it's worth, we have a piece on an ST car in the works.

Matt_the_Wolfe
Matt_the_Wolfe New Reader
9/28/16 12:42 p.m.

Its like IT on steroids. Bring your checkbook and don't expect to build a truly competitive car from scratch for less than 20k. Minimum weight is determined by engine displacement. Swaps are allowed between manufactures (i.e. Acura motor into a Honda is allowed but not a Toyota motor into a Honda). Hondas are stupendously competitive in the class.

Matt_the_Wolfe
Matt_the_Wolfe New Reader
9/28/16 12:57 p.m.

Latest version of the rules can be found here http://www.scca.com/pages/cars-and-rules

NEALSMO
NEALSMO UltraDork
9/28/16 1:00 p.m.
Matt_the_Wolfe wrote: Its like IT on steroids. Bring your checkbook and don't expect to build a truly competitive car from scratch for less than 20k. Minimum weight is determined by engine displacement. Swaps are allowed between manufactures (i.e. Acura motor into a Honda is allowed but not a Toyota motor into a Honda). Hondas are stupendously competitive in the class.

Sounds like Street Mod

Brett_Murphy
Brett_Murphy PowerDork
9/28/16 1:43 p.m.
Matt_the_Wolfe wrote: Swaps are allowed between manufactures (i.e. Acura motor into a Honda is allowed but not a Toyota motor into a Honda). Hondas are stupendously competitive in the class.

I don't understand why they do this. If you allow an engine swap, allow any engine swap of a certain displacement.

drdisque
drdisque HalfDork
9/28/16 2:39 p.m.
Brett_Murphy wrote:
Matt_the_Wolfe wrote: Swaps are allowed between manufactures (i.e. Acura motor into a Honda is allowed but not a Toyota motor into a Honda). Hondas are stupendously competitive in the class.
I don't understand why they do this. If you allow an engine swap, allow any engine swap of a certain displacement.

It's a roundabout way of banning exotic race engines.

Dark_Horse
Dark_Horse
9/28/16 6:47 p.m.

I started running STL this year, it is for any car with up to a 2000cc engine(no turbos), your weight is based off your displacement. You can swap engines as long as you keep it in the same "brand Family".

I run a '95 civic with a B18c1(GSR) and have to weigh 2430 with driver.

bravenrace
bravenrace MegaDork
9/29/16 8:12 a.m.

In reply to Dark_Horse:

So can you give me an idea of what it costs to build a fairly competitive car? Is it really $20k?

westsidetalon
westsidetalon Reader
10/1/16 10:06 a.m.

In reply to bravenrace:

This is a good estimate as some top competitive IT cars will cost this.

Dark_Horse
Dark_Horse New Reader
10/1/16 2:44 p.m.

I have about $12k in mine and my lap times are coming close to competitive(win regionals/mid pack nationals), but i am still sorting through some handling issues. My engine is built to the rules, I am currently running stock cams and have the car tuned(Hondata) to run on 93octane while I get the whole program together. I have larger cams and will freshen the engine and re-tune(for cams and race gas) now that I have the chassis better sorted.(should gain 10-20hp) I am currently focused more on improving my driving ability and seat time/race craft.

I have been involved in the SCCA for about 14years and I worked full-time as a race-mechanic for 8years, in a four year period I attended/prepared cars for just over 100 SCCA regional/National/Majors races. My cars won races and regional championships. This is my first year driving, but I have had seat time at a lot of the tracks in the southeast running NASA HPDE's since 2002.

If you want to run competitively, get a car and start turning laps!! Seat time will do more good than having a fully tweaked car. The guy that won STL the past 2 years is a Pro-driver that is also an engineer for Honda, and big money is starting to pour into STL. I plan on running STL more regionally for the next 2 years(more development time) and then moving it to the Majors.

If you truly want to be competitive in any SCCA class on a regular persons budget, then you need to build up to it over a couple of years.

I also plan on running a B-spec car next year to try to get an invite to the Runoffs at Indy.

In reply to bravenrace:

noddaz
noddaz SuperDork
10/1/16 4:56 p.m.

So in STL I could theoretically put a 318 or 360 in a 1998 Eclipse? As per:

scca said:

  1. Engine block (or housings of rotary engines) must be a production unit manufactured and badged the same as the original standard or optional engine for that model. Badges that exist as marketing aliases for the manufacturer will be recognized as equivalents. Swaps involving makes related only at a corporate level are not recognized as equivalents. Models produced as a joint venture between manufacturers may utilize any engine from any partner in the joint venture, provided that an engine from the desired manufacturer was a factory option in that particular model (e.g., Eagle Talon, available originally with either a Mitsubishi or Chrysler engine, may use any motor from Chrysler or Mitsubishi). This allows engine blocks manufactured as production units for sale in other countries such as Japan or Germany

And make it RWD per:

scca said:

D. Drivetrain and related components (e.g., induction, ignition, fuel systems) are unrestricted except for the following limitations:

And that goes back to #1 in my post. And yes, I do find it ironic that my question is about an Eclipse and the SCCA specifically uses that manufacturing "group" in it's example.

Dark_Horse
Dark_Horse New Reader
10/1/16 5:15 p.m.

No, it is larger than 2000cc.

The SCCA realized it was completely missing the Honda/tuner crowd in the early 00's. The Mazda crowd had spec miatas and rx7's everywhere. So STL was configured to get the tuner crowd of whatever make of car racing. There is also a sister class called STU, larger displacement, turbos and more liberal engine rules in general.

In reply to noddaz:

noddaz
noddaz SuperDork
10/1/16 7:35 p.m.

Thanks, I thought that was too easy. Ignore my post and let's get back to the original topic.

DirtyBird222
DirtyBird222 UltraDork
10/1/16 8:43 p.m.

Don't the Hongs run a Civic in STL maybe one of them can chime in. We looked into running STL with our Chump Accord but the H22 doesn't fit into that whole below 2.2L rule even tho the car is a tank in regards to the weight.

westsidetalon
westsidetalon Reader
10/1/16 9:53 p.m.

In reply to Dark_Horse: any idea how much hp a built GSR STL engine should make? I run a GSR Integra and Im thinking of just swapping a type r engine, which I think recently became legal?

Dark_Horse
Dark_Horse New Reader
10/1/16 11:08 p.m.

My current GSR engine is getting ~165Hp at the wheels 11.0:1 compression, stock cams tuned on 93 octane. I will be installing new cams that meet the rule requirements this offseason and re-tuning on race gas with expectations of ~180hp at the wheels. Staying true to the rules, that is about as good as it will get. The K20's have to run a 50mm flat plate restrictor which chokes them down, and they run at a heavier weight.(2700lbs)

A type R b18c5 will have a 2%(~50lb) weight penalty and still has to meet this rule; "Any porting and or polishing of intake and or exhaust ports outside of the GCR 9.1.4.2.B.3, 1” port matching allowance, factory or otherwise, is prohibited. Must meet all other STL specifications."

In reply to westsidetalon:

westsidetalon
westsidetalon Reader
10/2/16 10:17 a.m.

In reply to Dark_Horse: thanks much!

Brett_Murphy
Brett_Murphy PowerDork
10/3/16 4:00 p.m.
drdisque wrote: It's a roundabout way of banning exotic race engines.

Who is making F1 engines these days?

trigun7469
trigun7469 SuperDork
1/31/22 3:37 p.m.

Perhaps the reason for the competitive Honda's is it follows the Nasa Honda Challenge H1 rules? Class that has been around for almost 20 years.

Kendall_Jones
Kendall_Jones Dork
1/31/22 3:44 p.m.

Wow, zombie thread!

 

I ran a CRX with a B18C for a couple years, its a fun class but like they stated 6 years ago - its a pretty high dollar curve.

Robert_Cru
Robert_Cru New Reader
2/10/22 11:53 p.m.

I own CRX, 1988 one, and kind of agree with you.

 

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