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93EXCivic SuperDork
3/1/11 1:30 p.m.
Tom Heath wrote: In reply to seansverige: Welcome to the neighborhood, and thanks for your interest in the contest. Luckily, entrants won't have to do the work of translating their design into the production body, so let's allow the Factory Five engineers to do the heavy lifting. Draw a shape that fits the criteria set forth on the contest page and you might win. If a cooling duct or intercooler scoop has to move two inches to mate with the chassis, so be it.

If I win can I just have a job at Factory Five, I will be a mechanical engineer in a couple months.

Tom Heath
Tom Heath Web Manager
3/1/11 1:35 p.m.

In reply to seansverige:

No blood, no foul. I'm glad there's some excitement and passion about the contest and the future product.

We're working on getting some additional details to help assuage any fears, but please keep the whole project in perspective.

We're anticipating more information as we go along; as we get it we will share it with all of you and compile a FAQ section for the event page.

Good luck to all entrants!

Wowak SuperDork
3/1/11 1:41 p.m.
Brotus7 wrote: I would like to revise my previous Stratos comments and offer an alternative.

It just moved a little.

DaveSmith Factory Five President
3/1/11 1:41 p.m.


We have had extensive debate over this point and I think we will add some additional chassis details to help you guys, however, we don't want to constrain design freedom and ideas either. For example, we are planning on using the Subaru radiator (planning!). We have scanned it and are assuming it will be an important way to reduce the cost of building the car. Also the radiator is matched OEM to the engine etc. Thats the reasons to use it... BUT what if someone comes up with a rockin cool twin rear duct style body shape. We might want to change the design to use that cool feature/look. I guess the point is that we dont want to constrain creativity. Chassis pick-up points can be changed. We use CAD and make everything on the screeen first, so the decision to either provide all the details and hurt design freedom was balanced against the value of having final drawings which are the actual, down to the tenth car body... we decided to lean towards more open design paramenters. Hope that explains it.

Dave Smith President

DaveSmith New Reader
3/1/11 1:45 p.m.

Plus, the judges we have assembled are from ALL different walks of professional life. Our goal was to pick the most exciting, inspiring, and cool designs... then the hard work is set forth for the engineers to bring that to life. By setting the wheelbase, two-seater, mid-engine specs, we really have already added some tremndous constraints. I think and engine, seating cross-section is a good idea to add.

Dave Smith President

vwcorvette Reader
3/1/11 2:11 p.m.

The thing to remember is that this is an exercise in STYLING. Not design. And yes I consider the two very different things. Harley Earl, Bill Mitchell, Larry Shinoda, Teague, et al were STYLISTS and left it up to the engineers (Duntov, Cole, etc) to make it work as a package. Sure modern auto design has forced the stylist to know more and more about the functions of the device, but that needn't be necessary. Especially here.

I will add this however. I would be less enthusiastic about showing my hand early. Too often claims can be made about who came up with a certain look or element first or exclusively. Something to consider when $5k is on the line.

seansverige New Reader
3/1/11 2:44 p.m.
DaveSmith wrote: I think and engine, seating cross-section is a good idea to add.

Good to hear. That's exactly the kind of thing I was trying to get at - albeit in a rather clumsy, hamfisted manner. Providing those details makes things easier; also good to hear about stuff like radiator as this does have a direct link to the shape (clearly making best use of donor helps with costs, but if it's an item easily sold on it shouldn't unnecessarily constrain the final design).

So having defined the engine&drivetrain plus seating it's all to play for?

Andy Reid
Andy Reid Auction Editor
3/1/11 3:02 p.m.

If the design is good it is amazing what engineers will do to make a package work. Here is some food for thought.

When Ian Callum designed the DB7 the engineering team said that the hood was too low and that he would have to raise the height. He said it would look stupid and proved it with the next design rendering he did. In the end he won and the engineers were told to figure out a way to lower the engine to allow for the low hood height.

Get out there and design an amazing mid engined car and see what you get. How about some open top cars as well. There have been many great open mid engined designs, Lotus Elise, Porsche Boxster, Ferrari 360 and my personal all time favorite, the Jaguar XJ13.

Steve Chryssos
Steve Chryssos Associate Publisher
3/1/11 3:06 p.m.

Perhaps it would be better if the community asked specific questions. For example:

  • Distance from ground (or rear axle center line) to top of the engine.

  • Proposed top of the driver's crrrrranium.

  • Recommended overall FF/RR tire diameter.

By asking the right questions, we might all be design experts by the end of this process. If nothing else, we will have an in-depth discussion about a great new platform.

imirk New Reader
3/1/11 3:14 p.m.

Based on the Templates:

Tire dia. is 23"

Wheel dia. is 18"

Ride height is 4.5" off the ground.

The GT40 is about as low as you can go so 40" should be the minimum height.

Gasoline New Reader
3/1/11 3:19 p.m.

tuna55 Dork
3/1/11 3:19 p.m.
Tom Heath wrote: In reply to seansverige: Some very nice tactful things

Tom, no wonder you get along with people so well.

Ian F
Ian F SuperDork
3/1/11 3:21 p.m.

Personally, I would design around at least a 25" tire diameter (225/50-16, for example). Trying to find anything smaller is difficult (I say this after spending the last 9 months looking for E30 tires which are OE~24"). Even then, pickings are slim. Move up to 26" and options open up a lot.

imirk New Reader
3/1/11 3:24 p.m.
racinginc215 wrote: Wait i didn't win with the hot dog in a bun on wheels? This contest is rigged.

It was deemed derivative and might result in litigation :P

Tom Heath
Tom Heath Web Manager
3/1/11 3:38 p.m.
racinginc215 wrote: Wait i didn't win with the hot dog in a bun on wheels? This contest is rigged.

The winner won't be named until June 11th. You may still have a shot.

DaveSmith New Reader
3/1/11 4:32 p.m.

As much as I enjoy a good red-hot, I am not confident the weiner-mobile will win in the end... very funny!

Solidworks has done some very simple side view drawings with dimensioned placement for engine, sets/occupants. more tomorrow and we will also begin posting submissions on-line and introducing the judges.

Thansk to all for helping launch this fun project/competition.

Dave Smith

93EXCivic SuperDork
3/1/11 4:34 p.m.

I am thinking of something that looks like a certain Group B car and a certain Italian supercar berkeleyed and had a kid and no it is not a Stratos.

imirk New Reader
3/1/11 4:46 p.m.
93EXCivic wrote: I am thinking of something that looks like a certain Group B car and a certain Italian supercar berkeleyed and had a kid and no it is not a Stratos.

a quattro and ... a countach?

3/1/11 5:08 p.m.

This contest is awesome! I have been doodling all weekend trying to come up with that next new shape. I did a few quick models over the weekend in solidworks and i cant wait to get started on the real thing for submission.

I do have a few general questions. I know I know that we have freedom and tha'ts great, i love that, but i would like to know more specifics about things like glass. I know our focus isn't to do the final engineering BUT glass shape is very important. If we come up with something crazy that has a lot of glass how do you guys go about that? I'm assuming you would want to find donor glass, but is custom glass way out? With an 1800lb target weight can the driver just wear goggles:).

My second general question is on the chassis. If we are considering an open wheel car it would be nice to get some general frame envelope dimensions when you guys can release them.

Last general question, is there a limit to submissions? I would hate the pull the trigger and submit something to look at it the next day and think its junk.

Ill kick this off with one that I drew sunday to play around with the layout shape. The one im starting now is very different but hopefully others will follow. This was drawn with the 95" wheelbase figure but i had nothing else to go on at the time.

Thanks FF and GRM for holding this contest. I can't wait to see all the submissions that come out of this!

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
3/1/11 5:36 p.m.

JG and I just discussed some design ideas. You guys are so lucky that we can't officially enter.

T.J. SuperDork
3/1/11 5:40 p.m.
David S. Wallens wrote: JG and I just discussed some design ideas. You guys are so lucky that we can't officially enter.


JG's 'idea'

imirk New Reader
3/1/11 5:41 p.m.

Looks like there is some lightness to be added, you know it only using two wheels and all.

rob_z None
3/1/11 5:58 p.m.

I went to print out the templates so that I could bust out my pencils and start drawing (I don't have access to or knowledge of the use of CAD/solidworks:( )and the templates came out with horizontal lines across them. Anyone else having this issue? And before you ask, there is nothing wrong with my printer.

Tim Suddard
Tim Suddard Publisher
3/1/11 6:07 p.m.

Okay, I need to say a few things.

First, I am one of the judges and co-creators of this whole thing. That said, I will be one of several judges and every other judge might have their own opinion on what they are looking for.

Second, I convinced Dave Smith that our readers were the most serious car enthusiasts on the planet and could produce a buildable design. Weinermobiles may be funny to some, but I am taking this whole thing very seriously. I would ask that you do the same.

Third, I am shocked at some of the bitching I have seen so far. We offered you five thousand freaking dollars and a chance to go down in automotive history. Figure it out and do a little research. Factory Five became famous for two things... 1. doing things right and 2. the one donor car concept. Someone asked about glass area. How cool would it be if the car used a Subaru windshield? Again, be creative and impress us. You tell us how it is going to look and how it should go together. I am not saying it has to be this way, but in my mind it should be simple and to hit the price point it will have to be simple.Think Lotus 7 for a new generation, not Porsche 959! I would like to see the one donor car concept continue. This time they are using a Subaru. When I first saw the chassis six months ago, I thought it was an amazing idea. While I love Fox Mustangs, they are getting old and the Subaru drivetrain opens up their market to a host of younger people that love Subarus.

And finally, I would stop giving your ideas away on this or any other message board. if you are serious, do some homework, put pen to paper (or the digital equivalent) and send in a design.

Thanks for all the positive posts and thanks for being part of our community. This whole idea was a way to thank you for being part of our community and hopefully build our community and thus our publication.

And don't think for a minute that I am not angling already to get the first car and build it on the pages of Grassroots Motorsports. This is one car that is going to be a keeper in our stable!

JG Pasterjak
JG Pasterjak Production/Art Director
3/1/11 6:08 p.m.
T.J. wrote:
David S. Wallens wrote: JG and I just discussed some design ideas. You guys are so lucky that we can't officially enter.

I've informed my ISP that I apparently have a security issue and someone has hacked into my computer and stolen valuable data. I've contacted the state police and the cyber police. They backtraced it.


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