First Car

In reply to RaabTheSaab :

Thanks for the suggestions and the warm welcome. This proves why GRM is my favorite forum. Y'all have all been amazing. 

I don't think I can accept an auto. I know they have their benefits but there are some studies showing manuals are safer for ADHD drivers, and I just enjoy driving one so much more. Why should driving be a chore yaknow? 

I've yet to get my license, still have a bit longer on the permit but when I do I'll head to some dealerships. What should be top of the list to test? 

Evanuel9 said

I don't think I can accept an auto. I know they have their benefits but there are some studies showing manuals are safer for ADHD drivers, and I just enjoy driving one so much more. Why should driving be a chore yaknow? 

I am an ADD poster kid and I will tell you, yes a manual will keep you from being distracted. I'll be 60 this year and my current car is a manual.

Secondly, and you can show this to your folks, you need an automotive outlet like autocross, it will make you safer. 

I  started riding motorcycles before I got a car and I  road like a maniac; I'd come sliding around every street corner. Fortunately racing cured me of that behavior.

ADD people without an outlet are like a Jack Russel Terrier; if you don't give them an organized outlet they'll find one and it won't  be good.

Evanuel9 said:

In reply to dj06482 (Forum Supporter) :

Yeah. I wish rwd was an option for them, and I'll continue niggling them about it but so far zilch. Still, something to aspire to once I move out. 

A bummer would likely be a very hard sell. My parents subscribe to a lot of traditional car stereotypes. Saabs, on the other hand, would probably be an easier sell. And they're quirky cool.

I didn't know the matrix had a 2zz. That's an Elise engine no? I've heard it's a fun little high revver

Yes, the Matrix. XRS had the 2ZZ and I believe the 6spd manual, and only came in FWD.  I think there's a Corolla with the same drivetrain (also the XRS) that was made in 2005 and 2006. Both models are fairly rare, but they're out there.

In reply to Evanuel9 :

Yeah, I get it. I was strongly anti auto for a long time and only recently started to warm to them. Ok, so my list and keep in mind this is regional and reflects what I see in the mid Atlantic region where rust isn't as debilitating: 

1st gen focus svt. Around here, you can get 'em for 3-4K all day long. Some svt specific parts are no longer available so you might need to get creative. The  duratec version (07 and up) don't have this problem and are probably a better car over all. 
 

ep3 civic. Bad macstruts be damned. I still think they're fun. 
 

MC accent (3rd gen, '06-'11 I think). The SE version gets a b&m shifter for which I've heard nothing but praise. Never driven one myself though. 
 

any Mazda. Seriously. I'd veer more towards the 3 simply because of their abundance, but the 2 is stupid fun and the 6 has way more to give than any mid size sedan has any right to. I had an opportunity to buy a 6 speed wagon v6 Mazda 6 a few years ago but turned it down because I wasn't really looking to buy a car at the time. I kick myself regularly for this decision. 
 

'02-'03 maxima se. 3.5vq engine with a 6 speed. getting kinda thin on the ground. Watch for rust. 
 

Early-mid '00s Saab 9-3. They're pretty much a GM with all the good and bad that that entails. Saab specific parts might take some resourcefulness, but they made so many of them I can't imagine the supply of used parts running out any time soon.

volvo s40/c30. Basically a Mazda 3 underneath, but without the rust issues. Manuals are harder to find, but they're out there and not meaningfully more expensive. Prices have been creeping up lately in my casual searches, but that's likely secondary to tax season and the hyper inflated used car market in general. 
 

the aforementioned legacy/outback from the early '00s. But with a manual. Again, rust might be the killer here. 

weirdly, I'd also consider a 6th (98-02) gen accord. Dirt cheap, generally not abused, people pretty much give the manuals away. The 150hp f23 is underwhelming, but fine for daily driving and back road hooning. I enjoyed mine when I had it through college. Superb chassis in my opinion. 


 

In reply to Tom1200 :

I will 100% show this to them because I feel the same way. And the science supports it. I think if I'm doing it in a controlled environment like autocross they will be a lot more accepting (and I'll be safer)

In reply to dj06482 (Forum Supporter) :

Yes matrix xrs, and any e120 Corolla s have the 2zz. I bet they're fun

In reply to RaabTheSaab :

Wow awesome list.the svt seems like fun, there's actually on near my house that I might ask the owner about. 

Whats wrong with the ep3's macstruts?

Mc accent is only about 100 HP but that sub 2500 curb weight makes that a nice proposition

I'd probably lean towards the 2 as it's smaller and lighter

I kinda hate the maxima unfortunately haha but it is a Vq

Is the 9-3 fun? They're quirky cool but seem a bit more serious

The c30 seems way cool. I didn't even think about that. They are so interesting. Are they fun?

Legacy/outback vs an Impreza?? They seem fun

While I'm sure the benefits of the accord are undeniable but I just cannot bring myself, as a car guy, to own an accord

Now a more general question and anyone else please weigh in. I haven't driven many cars in my life so I have a fairly limited knowledge of driving characteristics based on weight and power and suspension and such. I know I love light cars from my limited experience with them but in terms of fun, for people who have driven a wider variety, what's more fun, weight or power? Like the svt is only 170hp but 2700 lbs vs the c30 is 3200 lbs 227 HP. Both close to the 15 ish lbs per hp but I'm sure very different driving dynamics. How would y'all weight these categories?

In reply to Evanuel9 :

If they want to PM me that's fine too. I'd be happy to share info with them.

I'm always doing something whether it's riding my dirt bike, moutain bike, autocrossing, doing track days or vintage races. It keeps me on an even keel.

Also becuase motorsports is an expensive hobby it got me motivated to find a career that paid well (purchasing analyst).

Motorsports also tends to be full of really good hard working people.

Lightweight, manual, red, fun, $5k?

https://www.mycarcastle.com/details/used-2006-mini-cooper/83834886

I know how people drive in the Chicago area....  Agressive!!  I would use that budget money for kart/car racing  You have Blackhawk Farms near by. Insurance,gas,parking etc for a in town driving car. No way. There are these things call busses. I would focus on really learning how to drive , isn't there a Skip Berber type school there. Then you will be a focused driver in big city traffic. 

Volvo 850 or early (99 or 2000) S60 or V70.

These come with a manual.  Absolutely safe, very reliable, a little quirky, easily modified, huge car community.  Neat.

Steve_Jones said:

Lightweight, manual, red, fun, $5k?

https://www.mycarcastle.com/details/used-2006-mini-cooper/83834886

 

A mini cooper, even non-S, might be a great choice!  They are fun in autocross and rallycross,  very easy to find (they made TONS), and they drive like a go kart.  Some german car quirks and parts not exactly cheap, but the fun factor per $ is pretty hard to beat.

Don't rule out Rallycross from your motorsports aspirations, it's a great way to learn car control in low grip surfaces which you can easily translate over to real world winter driving (this can be part of your pitch to the parents ;) )

Minis, or any FWD manual, would be right at home.

My first car was my dad's old EG Civic hatch, and I loved that thing dearly. He taught me to drive on the mountain roads near my house in it, and while it wasn't fast (it was only a DX, so no Vtec), it definitely had that tossable, light character that you're chasing and it handled great. IIRC, they only weigh something like 2200 pounds.

So I say find some 90s Honda that isn't completely rusted and have a blast. Prelude, Integra, Civic, Del Sol, maybe even a CRX... they're all great fun and most likely within your budget. They are also about as Lego-like as you can get in regards to mods, so if you want to wrench there's a massive supply of knowledge and parts for all sorts of engine swaps, head swaps, suspension swaps, etc. I've never had a problem with FWD cars, and while I love driving my modified NA Miata now, I don't honestly know if I can say it's a lot more fun than my old Honda was. Plus, a Civic is waaay more practical than a Miata too...

The problem with Mini is the BMW derived care costs... Especially with the deferred maintenance likely on a 'cheap' one. But from a driving protective, they're be a great choice.

When I read your first post, I though - slam dunk - Miata...until I saw the 'no RWD'.

Where do you live - a heavy snow state?  If not the Miata still makes sense. If you really need FWD, then the Mazda 3 makes sense - my wife had a Sport (hatchback) which is very handy.

In reply to wspohn :

Chicago, it's very snow heavy in winters though I think part of my parents aversion is they don't want me to hoon :D. They also think the size and age are unsafe.....

Miatas are also getting pretty expensive for decent condition. Used to be 2500 was running driving now good luck for 5k

In reply to Evanuel9 :

ANY vehicle can be hooned, especially on snow and ice. The key is that learning to do so in a safe and controlled environment will make you a better and safer driver.

I will say that my living with both FWD and Miatae in IL and WI is that:

1) The roads are flat and straight enough that, while snow tires are a nice bonus, they're not nearly as critical for snow and ice driving as in curvier and steeper parts of the country. A solid winter performing all-season, like the Continental DWS, is more than adequate when proper driving techniques and precautions are adhered to.

2) While a Miata on snow tires is better on snow and ice than a typical FWD on all-seasons, a FWD on all-seasons is admittedly still better on snow and ice than a Miata on all-seasons.

Evanuel9 said:

In reply to wspohn :

I think part of my parents aversion is they don't want me to hoon :D.

Yeah, too bad... You've already gotten bit, and if you have a full sized van, you're going to see how far it'll slide :)

I love the Mazda 2/Yaris/B-Spec ideas.  I've always enjoyed driving those.

One thing I'd really encourage you to do is a fly-and-drive.   The worst part of starting your automotive journey is rust, by far.  I wish I was able to do that for my first years.  Cars cost the same in South Carolina as they do in Chicago, and they're a heckuva lot less rusty down there.

I second (or third) the SVT Focus if you can find one.  Also had a ZX3 manual that was fun with some suspension mods.  I am 25 miles southeast of Chicago so I get the concerns that your parents have.  I remember growing up rear wheel drive seemed like all we had so we just figured out how to drive in the snow/ice and usually had a fun time doing it!

eastsideTim said:

Bobzilla may be along in a while to suggest this, but I'll preempt him.  You can probably get a halfway decent manual Hyundai Accent or Elantra for that price, and have money left over to put into suspension work.   Seems like I see 2000s Accent hatches with manuals go pretty cheap, even nowadays.

He wants a cool car, not a fun car. For that reason, my choices are out. Takes a special kind of person to mod and play with Korean cars. We're generally shunned and laughed at. But in the end we get more car for less money and have as much fun as anyone.

So to the OP, if you drop the "cool factor", here are plenty of  Korean options that are a great buy and perform well.

Evanuel9 said:

In reply to RaabTheSaab :

While I'm sure the benefits of the accord are undeniable but I just cannot bring myself, as a car guy, to own an accord

Now a more general question and anyone else please weigh in. I haven't driven many cars in my life so I have a fairly limited knowledge of driving characteristics based on weight and power and suspension and such. I know I love light cars from my limited experience with them but in terms of fun, for people who have driven a wider variety, what's more fun, weight or power? Like the svt is only 170hp but 2700 lbs vs the c30 is 3200 lbs 227 HP. Both close to the 15 ish lbs per hp but I'm sure very different driving dynamics. How would y'all weight these categories?

First of all, welcome to the forum and super glad to see another teenager into cars and keeping the passion alive.  I'm going through something very similar right now with my 18 year old son.  He's had his license for 2 year and worked hard to save money to buy a "cool" car.  He wound up buying a '96 Mustang Cobra.  I understand your FWD requirement.  Here's my $.02.  I have automotive ADHD, I like to try all kinds of different things.  I have owned more cars than I can remember, literally.  It's well over 100.  All kinds.  I've also driven a bunch of different cars on race tracks...both FWD and RWD.  Driving fun isn't necessarily defined by weight or power.  It can be either or both, just depending on what pleases you.  Small FWD cars are often powered by small 4s that need to be rev'd HARD to make a lot of power.  That's fun in it's own right, although the lack of low end power can be annoying.  Just make sure that's something you want.  They are usually tossable and lively, good on fuel and easy to live with day to day.  Find one that's reliable, because at your age and situation you don't want a car that's always in the shop or draining your money.  The MINI is stupid fun, but can't say I'd recommend it to a teen because they have a less than sterling reputation for quality.  Things like Civics, Matrix, Focus would be good choices.  They may not be super "cool", but they'll fit all your other needs.

Your comment about the Accord shows your newness to the car world.  And that's OK, I'm not picking on you.  As a car guy, a manual Accord is something you WOULD want to look hard at.  There's a reason its been on Car and Drivers' 10 Best list for something like 30 straight years.  It's got a super fun chassis, is reliable as the sunrise, good on gas, and has amazing engines and manual trans.  The V6 coupe 6spd is a heck of a sporty car, it'd blow away a ton of other cars.  The cool factor is certainly subjective, but the car is unquestionably a car guys car for those looking for a quality car.  

Again, welcome to the addiction!  As hard as it is, spend with your head and not your heart.  Many of the suggestions given here are good ones.  Grab yourself a fun but reliable car and worry about the really cool stuff when you get a bit older.

In reply to bobzilla :

Haha while I understand why you'd think that, I think plenty of Korean cars are cool. My taste in cool cars is weird. I like the 2000 hyundai accent for example because it's a fun, light, 3 door hatch with sweet styling (in my opinion), but I don't like the 3.5 maxima for example even though it's got my horsepower, better suspension, whatever. So please Korean fun car suggestions would be awesome. And fun> subjective "coolness" any day

In reply to MyMiatas :

This is the 'sensible' option but having a car of my own to wrench on, drive around when I want, and autocross has a certain allure that I don't know if driving classes can match.

In reply to Loweguy5 :

I actually do like volvos. Another to add to the list of test drives haha

Not to belabor the Accord point, but here's a few 3rd gen TLs (basically an Accord) that I think meet the requirements: 

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1559444261096778/?ref=search&referral_code=marketplace_search&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3Acc85ce0d-5a78-4aaa-a884-19e2d87eac36

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1936679073169072/?ref=search&referral_code=marketplace_search&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3Acc85ce0d-5a78-4aaa-a884-19e2d87eac36

https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/705011367538884/?ref=search&referral_code=marketplace_search&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp%3Acc85ce0d-5a78-4aaa-a884-19e2d87eac36