Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
11/21/21 8:48 a.m.

Alonso just defended against Perez without having to drive a half mile off track. See, it can be done. 

MrFancypants
MrFancypants Reader
11/21/21 8:49 a.m.

Why did they bring Lewis in so early to swap the mediums for hards? The mediums seemed to be working for him and they surely had a fair amount of life left.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
11/21/21 8:49 a.m.
alfadriver said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I'm wondering if RBR brought them in too early.  Will Max have to do two?  If he does, he needs to gap Bottas quite a bit more.

Doesn't look like that will be a problem. I think Lewis should have stayed out longer but Mercedes is playing a very conservative game. 

accordionfolder
accordionfolder SuperDork
11/21/21 8:54 a.m.

Holes in tires are going to make this race....

MrFancypants
MrFancypants Reader
11/21/21 9:24 a.m.

Go Fernando go! What a great drive.

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
11/21/21 9:31 a.m.
Keith Tanner said:
alfadriver said:

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I'm wondering if RBR brought them in too early.  Will Max have to do two?  If he does, he needs to gap Bottas quite a bit more.

Doesn't look like that will be a problem. I think Lewis should have stayed out longer but Mercedes is playing a very conservative game. 

MB screwed the pooch with Bottas- he has recovered really well, and they left him out too long.  Then again, Valteri put himself into that spot with the start.  And one thing missing from my question were the potential of tire failures- in hindsight, pitting early for safety was easily the best thing to do.

This was an odd race WRT tires- the failures were so sudden that it was feast or famine.  

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
11/21/21 9:35 a.m.

So for the midfield- Renault really did a great job over AT, and McLaren had a spot right up to the end to help against Ferrari.

Hard to see where 5th will go, but Ferrari is starting to really put distance for 3rd.

adam525i
adam525i Dork
11/21/21 9:37 a.m.

In reply to alfadriver :

I think they were hoping the gap would open up to Alonso before they pitted him so he'd only have Perez to deal with. He went from just a tick slower than Perez and twenty seconds up on much fresher tires to puncture through 1 corner. 

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
11/21/21 9:57 a.m.

In reply to adam525i :

Probably, but all of the gaps backwards stabilized, and they were all dropping from the front.

Still, for the field, the tire drop off was quite odd- working well to puncture.  Last time anything like this happened was Siverstone last year.

steronz
steronz Reader
11/21/21 10:30 a.m.
alfadriver said:

BTW, why didn't Gasley enter the pit lane?  If he made the last corner, he should have been able to enter the pits....  Although, if he stopped there, it would have been the same, I guess.

If you watch his on board, he's basically driving past the pit entrance as his tire is exploding. It would have been physically possible for him to realize what was happening and dive into the pit but not realistic given time to process what was happening and the speed he was going. 

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
11/21/21 10:45 a.m.

On a bit of a new topic, Lewis didn't use his Brazil engine today, so he has a fresh, spicy engine for Saudi and Bahrain.  Max took his engine quite a while ago, didn't he?  That Honda must be getting a bit long in the tooth by now.

Advan046
Advan046 UltraDork
11/21/21 11:11 a.m.

I think that fast3st lap point Max earned today will be crucial going forward.

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
11/21/21 11:15 a.m.

Whinger Spice got himself a stern talking-to about his marshaling comments, and then Marko went way farther on Spanish TV. 

That should cost a couple of quid when the penalty is announced.

adam525i
adam525i Dork
11/21/21 11:24 a.m.

In reply to Advan046 :

When Russel had his puncture they put softs on to finish the race, I was really hoping he would grab fastest lap from Max ( I know that's a long shot) but with Max pitting for them as well and the VSC ending at the perfect time (Hamilton already started his last lap when it ended) there was no chance.

codrus (Forum Supporter)
codrus (Forum Supporter) PowerDork
11/21/21 12:52 p.m.
adam525i said:

I think they were hoping the gap would open up to Alonso before they pitted him so he'd only have Perez to deal with. He went from just a tick slower than Perez and twenty seconds up on much fresher tires to puncture through 1 corner. 

Given how many tire failures we saw at the end, it's pretty clear that it took all the teams by surprise how quickly they gave up and with no warning.  I don't think I'd blame the MB team too much for Bottas' retirement, he was the fastest-paced 1-stop car, so it's to be expected that if the tires are going to fail then they'd go on his car first.

Pitting Hamilton the lap after Verstappen (both times) was a no brainer.  When the cars are separated by a pit stop like that, all it takes is badly timed safety car that comes out such that you can't duck into the pits before you have to slow for it and the race is gone.

MrFancypants
MrFancypants Reader
11/21/21 1:06 p.m.
codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

Pitting Hamilton the lap after Verstappen (both times) was a no brainer.  When the cars are separated by a pit stop like that, all it takes is badly timed safety car that comes out such that you can't duck into the pits before you have to slow for it and the race is gone.

Ahhhh okay, that clears up that (for me). Makes sense.

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
11/21/21 2:56 p.m.

I still don't get why they left Valteri out so long.  Critical was to stay ahead of Sergio, which he could do, I think, quite easily after Checo had come out into traffic. As far as the rest of them, faster car, fresher tires, and best manufacturer points available.  Lap 33 of a 57 lap race, with harder tires to come.  Gotta be a mistake.

Edit.  OK, Valteri would have come out behind Checo, probably around Gasley, but the two stop guys were pretty obvious.  He would have wound up running near Alonso at the end, but ahead of Checo after the second stop. 

Mistake.

johndej
johndej Dork
11/21/21 3:15 p.m.

Fred's most recent podium prior to today was before Max's first race.

adam525i
adam525i Dork
11/21/21 3:37 p.m.

Valteri was nursing another problem through the race which is why they retired him. They were having him hold 6 gear through a number of corners and straights rather up/downshifting and then pulling out of the draft down the main straight to cool the car anytime he wasn't actively trying to get past someone with DRS. So probably another power unit to finish the year lol

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
11/21/21 4:56 p.m.
Streetwiseguy said:

I still don't get why they left Valteri out so long.  Critical was to stay ahead of Sergio, which he could do, I think, quite easily after Checo had come out into traffic. As far as the rest of them, faster car, fresher tires, and best manufacturer points available.  Lap 33 of a 57 lap race, with harder tires to come.  Gotta be a mistake.

Edit.  OK, Valteri would have come out behind Checo, probably around Gasley, but the two stop guys were pretty obvious.  He would have wound up running near Alonso at the end, but ahead of Checo after the second stop. 

Mistake.

Especially when the gap stabilized- and Valteri was close enough to make a move on the cars- since he would have had new tires and been behind by 4-6 sec.

It will be interesting to watch Mercedes answer that question on thier post race Q&A.

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
11/21/21 4:57 p.m.

In reply to adam525i :

I saw him pull out when closing on someone- that was the reason, then... interesting.

Javelin (Forum Supporter)
Javelin (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
11/21/21 7:10 p.m.
alfadriver said:
Javelin (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to alfadriver :

Again, I don't think you comprehend this, but the DRS system is owned, supplied, and operated by the FIA, not the teams. 

Fascinating that Red Bull is the one team that consistently has problems with it, then.  Sucks for them.

BTW, according to this RacecarEngineering article, the actuator is the same, but how it's actually used to operate the flap is up to the teams.  https://www.racecar-engineering.com/articles/f1/drs-the-drag-reduction-system/

(and you are welcome for the help with your Fords- ever wonder why I never participated?)

Wow. Class act.

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
11/22/21 6:17 a.m.

In reply to Javelin (Forum Supporter) :

laugh

That's awesome- insult me, and then attack me for not wanting to get further insulted by you.  Good on you. 

Advan046
Advan046 UltraDork
11/22/21 7:48 a.m.

I can imagine that Redbull could use the upper rear wing element in an interesting way. When I first saw the fluttering wing many races ago, my first thought wasn't "hmm something broke" it was "Hmm RBR figured out how to reduce drag further when the DRS is open by allowing the element to harmonically oscillate, somehow" the "fix" it with everyone looking faux worried. 

 

alfadriver
alfadriver MegaDork
11/22/21 8:05 a.m.

In reply to Advan046 :

the part that makes me more suspicious is how they want to make everyone thing Mercedes is cheating.  Distracting from the fact that they keep working on their car in parc ferme because it's "broken"...  

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