Getting screwed after being in an accident (previously unknown damage)

nocones wrote: Surely there is recourse with GEICO for not correctly identifying the scope of repairs prior to disassembling your truck. It's a comprehensive claim why aren't they repairing the damage? Preexisting to your accident shouldn't matter your making a claim to repair the truck. It has frame damage why are they not fixing it? That said if your options are pay $23k (15k payoff+8k for the frame) for a 2013 crew cab or $42k for a new one I know what I would choose unless the 2013 is in terrible shape.

It is a 2011. 95k miles on it...

This is a poop sandwich right here. Sorry to read about it. Could have happened to 90% of us.

wvumtnbkr wrote: I can't get the truck back without either paying for the frame or paying the 11k the shop has into it...

Is Geico willing to just total it as is? Meaning what are your true options?

A) Pay 8g for a new frame.
B) Pay the body shop 11g for their work.
C) Trade in on the new Chevy.

A) I understand.
B) I don't understand. If they've repaired the accident damage from January then it's your truck abet with a ill fitting bed. Yes they might brand the title with the state but it's your truck that you owe 15g on.
C) How is the Chevy dealer going to handle B? Are they paying the body shop the 11g?

Another question. A lot of insurance companies do a pre inspection before issuing full coverage insurance. Did Geico do that on your truck?

Stampie wrote: Another question. A lot of insurance companies do a pre inspection before issuing full coverage insurance. Did Geico do that on your truck?

I was just about to say this. If you have full coverage they should have looked over your vehicle before. I would talk to a lawyer, might cost you out of pocket but you should get your truck fixed.

Seems to me (which has no basis in fact or logic, just my .02) that GEICO should just total the truck, pay the body shop and pass along their loss to the rest of us like they always do anyway. I understand they aren't liable for fixing prior damage, but you are paying for full coverage, if they aren't going to pay to fix the vehicle then they should total it and take the loss, I really hope you have GAP insurance to help with the payoff. The whole situation is certainly unfortunate, I hope you get a satisfactory outcome.

I fail to see where you authorized 11k worth of teardown. Some states have laws where they require a written estimate BEFORE work is done, and the actual bill cannot exceed 10% more than that estimate. VA is one, IIRC OH was too.

I've only ever had one insurance company ask to see a car before they insured it, and even then they just looked at it in the agent's parking lot.

I have never had a vehicle inspected by the insurance company.

Since it should be covered by geico, I don't have to be informed about overages.

Geico says the truck is unsafe and won't authorize finishing the repairs until the frame is fixed.

Don't think Geico can legally prevent or refuse the repairs just because they think the truck is unsafe.

You don't have to have it repaired at a Geico shop. You can go wherever you want for the repair. Geico does have to pay for the repair at whatever shop you go to.

You don't ever have to repair it, you can take the money and do with it as you please.

Truck frames aren't the most accurate things even on the production line. From the description, it doesn't actually sound critical.

Having been around the shipping ports for some years, I'm amazed at the damage and repairs done to new vehicles, with those "repairs" passed on to the unsuspecting buyer. So I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the damage was there as a brand new untitled vehicle. Hence, no record.

foxtrapper wrote: Don't think Geico can legally prevent or refuse the repairs just because they think the truck is unsafe. You don't have to have it repaired at a Geico shop. You can go wherever you want for the repair. Geico does have to pay for the repair at whatever shop you go to. You don't ever have to repair it, you can take the money and do with it as you please. Truck frames aren't the most accurate things even on the production line. From the description, it doesn't actually sound critical. Having been around the shipping ports for some years, I'm amazed at the damage and repairs done to new vehicles, with those "repairs" passed on to the unsuspecting buyer. So I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the damage was there as a brand new untitled vehicle. Hence, no record.

Interesting... this gets more and more interesting all the time...

Rob,
There is so much misinformation in this thread, I'm not even going to dive into all of it. But as one LeMons guy to another, take my word for it when I tell you that GEICO is under no obligation to do anything regarding the pre-existing damage on the truck, and they won't. The only way they will is if they want to do it as "customer service", but otherwise I think your options are the ones you listed...trade it in, pay to fix the prior damage. If I was in GEICOs spot, and I am frequently, I wouldn't pay to fix it. On occasion, I have totaled a car in this situation, but they payout is significantly less than "normal" market value, because of the prior damage.

It sucks...big time. I've learned to never say never, but rightfully this is not GEICO or the shops' issue, so I wouldn't expect anything from them.

DatsunS130 wrote:

Stampie wrote: Another question. A lot of insurance companies do a pre inspection before issuing full coverage insurance. Did Geico do that on your truck?

I was just about to say this. If you have full coverage they should have looked over your vehicle before. I would talk to a lawyer, might cost you out of pocket but you should get your truck fixed.

I've owned something like 11 cars that I've put full coverage on in the last 7 years. Everything from a engine swapped E30 to '13 Mustang GT to my current '15 BRZ.

I have NEVER had an insurance company ask to do an inspection.

My ex used to do inspections all the time but she works at a low end agency. They might have been trying to prevent scams.

Unfortunately, this is what "caveat emptor" means.

It sucks, but none of the entities involved are gonna help, with or without a lawyer.

The truth is that you can't even prove when this happened. It has been in your possession for 3 years- it could have happened at any time.

If you had hired an independent agent to assess the vehicle before purchase, it might have been covered on his E&O insurance. Without that, it's just your word that the vehicle has not been damaged or tampered with in the past 3 years.

Save your money on the attiorney fees. It sucks, but take your bruises.

There is a possible issue with proceeding with $11,0000 worth of work without your authorization. In my opinion, that work was authorized by Geico, not you. You may be able to make a case that you brought them a running driving vehicle and they are now trying to charge you $11K to get back a pile of junk. You might be able to get the truck back reassembled at no cost, but that won't make you whole either, and you will have a branded title and Geico will drop your coverage. Not worth it.

If it's any consolation, you taught me to be more careful.

Seems to me that Geico is obligated to make you whole for the current accident you were covered for. They should put the truck back the way it was.

Unfortunately, that means you will have a truck with a torched frame, branded title, and $15K still on the note. You will also have knowledge of the issue, which means if you sold it without disclosing, you could be liable for fraud.

But, you'd have a truck, with no additional debt.

I don't buy the "unsafe" argument. You drove it for 3 years without incident, alignment issues, noises, shakes, or unusual tire wear. I don't think they can now claim it is unsafe because their (captive subcontractor) body shop says so.

If the frame is tweaked but not obviously damaged and the truck can still be aligned properly, I'd just have them line up the body panels as best they can and not worry about it if the dealer won't do anything about it.

Klayfish wrote: Rob, There is so much misinformation in this thread, I'm not even going to dive into all of it. But as one LeMons guy to another, take my word for it when I tell you that GEICO is under no obligation to do anything regarding the pre-existing damage on the truck, and they won't. The only way they will is if they want to do it as "customer service", but otherwise I think your options are the ones you listed...trade it in, pay to fix the prior damage. If I was in GEICOs spot, and I am frequently, I wouldn't pay to fix it. On occasion, I have totaled a car in this situation, but they payout is significantly less than "normal" market value, because of the prior damage. It sucks...big time. I've learned to never say never, but rightfully this is not GEICO or the shops' issue, so I wouldn't expect anything from them.

This!!!! My comment about seeing a Lawyer was only to actually be told that there is no case (if you still think there is one). Sometimes it is good to talk to an expert even if they don't give you the information you were hoping for. At least you can move forward knowing what your real options are and try and make the best of a bad situation.

I am the "lawyer" in this situation in my line of work a lot of the time. Clients come to me hoping that they have a case when in reality they do not. It is my job to tell them that when the situation occurs.

I am not involving lawyers.

Anybody know how to tell if a vehicle was listed as a certified pre-owned GM vehicle?

I can't remember if this one was or not.

Thanks!

Rob R.

rslifkin wrote: If the frame is tweaked but not obviously damaged and the truck can still be aligned properly, I'd just have them line up the body panels as best they can and not worry about it if the dealer won't do anything about it.

They tell me it is not possible to do so.

wvumtnbkr wrote:

rslifkin wrote: If the frame is tweaked but not obviously damaged and the truck can still be aligned properly, I'd just have them line up the body panels as best they can and not worry about it if the dealer won't do anything about it.

They tell me it is not possible to do so.

If whatever shop fixed it before managed to get stuff on there straight-ish, then I see no reason why they couldn't unless the frame got tweaked further in the accident.

wvumtnbkr wrote:

rslifkin wrote: If the frame is tweaked but not obviously damaged and the truck can still be aligned properly, I'd just have them line up the body panels as best they can and not worry about it if the dealer won't do anything about it.

They tell me it is not possible to do so.

"They" are a Geico shop. Other shops may/can/will do what they cannot/will not.

All I have to add is I feel for you. Hopefully a better solution you can live with will present itself.

wvumtnbkr wrote: I am not involving lawyers. Anybody know how to tell if a vehicle was listed as a certified pre-owned GM vehicle? I can't remember if this one was or not. Thanks! Rob R.

http://www.gmcertified.com/contact-us

Ask them. Have your VIN number ready.

I do see per a sample of GM's certified pre-owned inspection that the frame is a part that gets looked at. What I think you will run into is, what is considered frame damage and was it visible from underneath. When I did appraisals I saw far to often "certified" vehicles with frame damage or re-welds. The dealership will be an uphill climb, unfortunately this issue happens with a decent amount of frequency and there is not a lot of recourse with the consumer vs. the dealer, unless your dealer is top notch with customer service.