1 2 3
pimpm3 (Forum Supporter)
pimpm3 (Forum Supporter) UberDork
8/2/22 1:58 p.m.

So I noticed several posts regarding this on Facebook over the past few weeks.  Basically excess factory rtv is getting sucked into the oil pickup and is causing cars to lose oil pressure due to a blocked pickup screen.

The Drive article about oil starvation issues

I went to the Subaru dealer yesterday to inquire as to the possibility of them pulling my oil pan to check my BRZ's oil pick up.  The service writer was unaware of any issues and advised that I would need to pay approximately $550 for them to check since it's not a warranty item. 

I would pull the pan myself but would hate to have it fail in the future and them point the finger at the r and r of my own pan as the culprit.

Am I being paranoid?  Car has 2200 miles and I am now nervous to use it for its purchased purposes after reading about the issues others are having. 

Slippery
Slippery PowerDork
8/2/22 2:05 p.m.

I don't have the answer but you are not alone in being paranoid. Sucks. 

Z31maniac’s thread.

racerfink
racerfink UberDork
8/2/22 2:05 p.m.

Drive it.  If it fails, be the squeaky wheel, with plenty of documentation to back you up.

I would contact whatever Gov. entity that makes manufacturers issue recalls (NHSTA?) just so they have one more name on the list.  Might make a recall happen sooner.

maschinenbau
maschinenbau UberDork
8/2/22 2:08 p.m.

I saw the original posts on SCCA social media too and immediately thought of you and a few other GRM'ers. Is there a fixed and proven method for resealing the oil pan without causing even more RTV to squeeze out? If so, I would go forward with that via the dealership if they are capable and confident. But since they've (supposedly) never heard of this issue, I would be hesitant to have them do the work. If you get an independent shop to do it or DIY, how would they ever know anyway?

FWIW, if my new car had that issue, and it only cost $550 to bulletproof it, I would happily pay. For reference I immediately and happily paid $400 for a seat lowering kit for the ND Miata. It sucks but it's a good one-time investment.

classicJackets (FS)
classicJackets (FS) SuperDork
8/2/22 2:13 p.m.
maschinenbau said:

I saw the original posts on SCCA social media too and immediately thought of you and a few other GRM'ers. Is there a fixed and proven method for resealing the oil pan without causing even more RTV to squeeze out? If so, I would go forward with that via the dealership if they are capable and confident. But since they've (supposedly) never heard of this issue, I would be hesitant to have them do the work. If you get an independent shop to do it or DIY, how would they ever know anyway?

If it comes down to warranty engine replacement, the dealership would likely have a Field Service tech or other "expert" to come out and inspect the failed parts before agreeing to warranty the engine. Maybe not something Toyota/Subaru do, but it's a fairly common practice on expensive Warranty failures from other OEMs. The folks who would be investigating would be in touch with the Design engineers as well as mfg plant to see what the RTV pattern coming off the assembly line would be from a removed pan. Any differences in pattern/squeeze out would likely be identifiable, and could be grounds for them to get upset if it's not logged in dealer records.

pimpm3 (Forum Supporter)
pimpm3 (Forum Supporter) UberDork
8/2/22 2:19 p.m.

The local dealership has a great reputation and even sponsored the local autocross chapter for several years in the mid 2000's.

I showed the service writer the pictures folks had posted online, and he seemed quite appalled. 

He said I could try calling corporate to see if they would be willing to authorize the pan removal and reinstall, or wait for a TSB to be issued.  He said barring either of those things happening my only option at this point is to pay for the pan removal.

pimpm3 (Forum Supporter)
pimpm3 (Forum Supporter) UberDork
8/2/22 2:23 p.m.
maschinenbau said:

I saw the original posts on SCCA social media too and immediately thought of you and a few other GRM'ers. Is there a fixed and proven method for resealing the oil pan without causing even more RTV to squeeze out? If so, I would go forward with that via the dealership if they are capable and confident. But since they've (supposedly) never heard of this issue, I would be hesitant to have them do the work. If you get an independent shop to do it or DIY, how would they ever know anyway?

FWIW, if my new car had that issue, and it only cost $550 to bulletproof it, I would happily pay. For reference I immediately and happily paid $400 for a seat lowering kit for the ND Miata. It sucks but it's a good one-time investment.

Good point, I am leaning towards having it done at this point.  Before I do, I may speak with the service manager to see if they would be willing to waive the cost of the removal if they find RTV.

maschinenbau
maschinenbau UberDork
8/2/22 2:44 p.m.

In reply to pimpm3 (Forum Supporter) :

Keep us updated. I would try to talk with the service techs if you can, to feel out their confidence level in the task. I would hate for them to cause a problem that didn't exist on your car.

Matt B (fs)
Matt B (fs) UltraDork
8/2/22 2:58 p.m.

Just yesterday there was a GR86 owner on Reddit that had his warranty claim denied on this issue because the warranty rep found pics of him autocrossing on social media.  According to his story he documented how the failure happened due to the RTV deposits in the oil pickup, but so far it's fallen on deaf ears at corporate.  That's awfully pragmatic of Toyota especially considering they're providing a complimentary NASA track day and membership with purchase.   The exec who came up with a built-in way of denying warranty claims should be promoted!

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
8/2/22 2:59 p.m.

Something to keep in mind, the factory-applied pan on my 2017 model was RTV'd on so tight that it had to be destructively removed after all the bolts were out, so at least make sure you know which dealership has replacement pans in stock if you decide to DIY it.

Noddaz
Noddaz PowerDork
8/2/22 3:01 p.m.

Can you drain the oil and get in there with a flexible camera probe  and look around for loose RTV chunks?

Slippery
Slippery PowerDork
8/2/22 3:02 p.m.

I would consider removing the license plate as soon as you arrive at an autocross.

RyanGreener (Forum Supporter)
RyanGreener (Forum Supporter) Reader
8/2/22 3:06 p.m.

There are some reports that some of the sealant may also be from around the timing cover area....which I hear was a 1st gen kind of issue too. Interesting (but not in a good way). I have a deposit/reservation for mine coming soon so I'm not too thrilled about this. There's a lot of talk in Japan about this too.

dps214
dps214 Dork
8/2/22 3:19 p.m.

You'll be fine, because your car has subaru badges on it and subaru is actually interested in honoring warranties and keeping their customers happy.

I think I've seen somewhere that subaru reps have said pulling the pan yourself to check won't void the warranty (but don't take that from me). Also be aware that the "proper" way to clean out the pickup involves pulling the full oil pan which involves pulling (and resealing) the front cover as well and is something like a 13hr book time job.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
8/2/22 3:21 p.m.
Matt B (fs) said:

Just yesterday there was a GR86 owner on Reddit that had his warranty claim denied on this issue because the warranty rep found pics of him autocrossing on social media.  According to his story he documented how the failure happened due to the RTV deposits in the oil pickup, but so far it's fallen on deaf ears at corporate.  That's awfully pragmatic of Toyota especially considering they're providing a complimentary NASA track day and membership with purchase.   The exec who came up with a built-in way of denying warranty claims should be promoted!

Didn't Subaru pull that same trick 15 years ago? Car came with a NASA membership, which invalidated the warranty when used.

pimpm3 (Forum Supporter)
pimpm3 (Forum Supporter) UberDork
8/2/22 3:25 p.m.
Slippery said:

I would consider removing the license plate as soon as you arrive at an autocross.

Plates are the least of my worries, a simple Google search of my name and SCCA reveals lots of autocross entries. 

Honestly it's the reason I bought the car.  I mean that and track days.  Basically I wanted to replace my 20 year old MR2 with something modern, competitive, and low maintenance with low running costs.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
8/2/22 3:32 p.m.
Noddaz said:

Can you drain the oil and get in there with a flexible camera probe  and look around for loose RTV chunks?

Nope, not the way the pickup is designed. 

Slippery
Slippery PowerDork
8/2/22 3:35 p.m.
pimpm3 (Forum Supporter) said:
Slippery said:

I would consider removing the license plate as soon as you arrive at an autocross.

Plates are the least of my worries, a simple Google search of my name and SCCA reveals lots of autocross entries. 

Honestly it's the reason I bought the car.  I mean that and track days.  Basically I wanted to replace my 20 year old MR2 with something modern, competitive, and low maintenance with low running costs.

Yeah, but you never autocrossed this specific GR86. It was always your buddy's. wink

dps214
dps214 Dork
8/2/22 3:37 p.m.
z31maniac said:
Noddaz said:

Can you drain the oil and get in there with a flexible camera probe  and look around for loose RTV chunks?

Nope, not the way the pickup is designed. 

Multiple people have bore scoped the pickup tube. Not sure how much disassembly they did though. I think I saw at least one person that did it without disassembling anything.

I'm not a lawyer but online entry list seems pretty weak as there's nothing tying it to being your car. I mean I know our car was sitting in the garage while we borrowed someone else's car to autocross last weekend. laugh

pimpm3 (Forum Supporter)
pimpm3 (Forum Supporter) UberDork
8/2/22 3:40 p.m.

Road and Track has picked it up as well now.

Road and Track

ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter)
ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) HalfDork
8/2/22 3:58 p.m.
pimpm3 (Forum Supporter) said:

Road and Track has picked it up as well now.

Road and Track

We could debate whether the social media/pitchfork thing is good or bad, but in this case I would argue that it's pretty good for consumers who would have been powerless otherwise.  I can't reconcile in my mind how a manufacturer could give away a free track day with the purchase of their car, then deny warranty coverage because the car had been used at a track day.  Hopefully the PR stir around this will hold them accountable to their customers.  The target customer base for the GR86 is already pretty narrow, if you take away track/autocross usage I think that makes it almost not a viable product.

There was a lot of fanfare around the ND1 Miata's fragile transmissions, but everyone I know that had the issue had it replaced by Mazda at no charge- even after track use.  If you're going to play the enthusiast game, you need to stand by your customers.  I'm insanely brand loyal to Mazda for this reason alone.

racerfink
racerfink UberDork
8/2/22 4:01 p.m.
Keith Tanner said:
Matt B (fs) said:

Just yesterday there was a GR86 owner on Reddit that had his warranty claim denied on this issue because the warranty rep found pics of him autocrossing on social media.  According to his story he documented how the failure happened due to the RTV deposits in the oil pickup, but so far it's fallen on deaf ears at corporate.  That's awfully pragmatic of Toyota especially considering they're providing a complimentary NASA track day and membership with purchase.   The exec who came up with a built-in way of denying warranty claims should be promoted!

Didn't Subaru pull that same trick 15 years ago? Car came with a NASA membership, which invalidated the warranty when used.

They sure did.  I think it was for the STi.  The transmissions turned out to be made of glass, and if you autocrossed the car on your included SCCA membership, they denied your warranty claim.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
8/2/22 4:04 p.m.

From the R&T article: 

Alvarado attempted to fight Toyota on the decision, or at least have them foot some of the bill for the replacement motor. But the service manager at his dealership stuck by the field technician specialist's call. Instead of paying for a new replacement motor, Alvarado had his car towed to a nearby Subaru dealer to have a low-mileage motor installed, costing him roughly $7000 out of pocket. 

I wonder if he went any further up the ladder? You don't stop at the dealership, you get the regional rep involved. One of the members of our forum, a friend of mine,  lost a Subaru engine (1998 Legacy with a non-turbo 2.5, IIRC) due to oil starvation when it was juuuuuust out of warranty. Initial response from the dealer was "sucks to be you". He went to the rep, pointed out the complete service history of the vehicle had been done by the dealership, the fact that it was a 100% street car that was used for commuting and got a significant amount of the replacement cost waived.

Then the replacement also failed almost immediately, but that's a Subaru thing. You wouldn't understand.

Keith Tanner said:

Then the replacement also failed almost immediately, but that's a Subaru thing. You wouldn't understand.

And apparently a Toyota thing now too.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
8/2/22 4:24 p.m.
ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) said:
Keith Tanner said:

Then the replacement also failed almost immediately, but that's a Subaru thing. You wouldn't understand.

And apparently a Toyota thing now too.

Not sure if serious. 

1 2 3
Our Preferred Partners
hbJhadBLNv1Czi2OnNnPIHDQ9KF1MyT1gMWX4LnIfJ1DnrOoEcUyjWBy8E2d5bgL