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David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
8/2/22 5:17 p.m.

Some related questions:

Does racing always automatically invalidate a new-car warranty?

Does autocross count as racing? 

What if I enter an autocross and just putt around the course?

 

Javelin
Javelin MegaDork
8/2/22 5:20 p.m.

Calling it now, today's FRS/BRZ/GR86's are tomorrow's RX-8's. Fantastic chassis that can be had dirt cheap all day long with blown motors ripe for engine swaps!

David S. Wallens
David S. Wallens Editorial Director
8/2/22 5:22 p.m.

In reply to Javelin :

K swap all things? 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
8/2/22 5:28 p.m.
David S. Wallens said:

In reply to Javelin :

K swap all things? 

A properly done KSwap is well north of $10k. 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
8/2/22 5:29 p.m.

Nice little Facebook post. Someone else who dropped their pan and found a bunch in the oil pickup.

https://www.facebook.com/MNIVETMX5/posts/pfbid02cx2e9LJaf3k5aAHPeeoaorca2HutZkQURuAsSSoSJcFhoM112GMTr8RWDfRJ3DGol

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
8/2/22 5:30 p.m.
racerfink said:
Keith Tanner said:
Matt B (fs) said:

Just yesterday there was a GR86 owner on Reddit that had his warranty claim denied on this issue because the warranty rep found pics of him autocrossing on social media.  According to his story he documented how the failure happened due to the RTV deposits in the oil pickup, but so far it's fallen on deaf ears at corporate.  That's awfully pragmatic of Toyota especially considering they're providing a complimentary NASA track day and membership with purchase.   The exec who came up with a built-in way of denying warranty claims should be promoted!

Didn't Subaru pull that same trick 15 years ago? Car came with a NASA membership, which invalidated the warranty when used.

They sure did.  I think it was for the STi.  The transmissions turned out to be made of glass, and if you autocrossed the car on your included SCCA membership, they denied your warranty claim.

The STi has the brick outhouse transmission.  The WRX had the glass 5 speed.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
8/2/22 5:31 p.m.
Javelin said:

Calling it now, today's FRS/BRZ/GR86's are tomorrow's RX-8's. Fantastic chassis that can be had dirt cheap all day long with blown motors ripe for engine swaps!

I wonder how many people are dropping their place in the allocation line, to be honest.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
8/2/22 6:02 p.m.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:
Javelin said:

Calling it now, today's FRS/BRZ/GR86's are tomorrow's RX-8's. Fantastic chassis that can be had dirt cheap all day long with blown motors ripe for engine swaps!

I wonder how many people are dropping their place in the allocation line, to be honest.

For BRZ's? Unlikley. Most dealers that sold at MSRP, mine included, made the $1k deposit non-refundable unless:
1. They couldn't get you financed.
2. Damage occurred during shipping. 
 

I plan on speaking with the service manager when the car arrives. According to MySubaru, it's supposed to be the last week of this month. 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
8/2/22 6:16 p.m.
z31maniac said:
David S. Wallens said:

In reply to Javelin :

K swap all things? 

A properly done KSwap is well north of $10k. 

Given that the recent high-profile engine failure resulted in a $7k like-for-like swap, maybe that's not so terrible.

dps214
dps214 Dork
8/2/22 6:21 p.m.
David S. Wallens said:

Some related questions:

Does racing always automatically invalidate a new-car warranty?

Does autocross count as racing? 

What if I enter an autocross and just putt around the course?

Yeah it gets into a weird area. It seems disingenuous to provide a free track day and membership with a car that you have no intention of warrantying for track use, though Toyota is certainly not the first to go down that path. It's also a bad situation in that hard use might expedite the problem, but clearly isn't the root cause. If we haven't already I bet we'll start seeing non-autocross/track cars having issues soon.

I've definitely heard at least anecdotal cases from other manufacturers of warranty being denied for "abuse" when the root cause was clearly a manufacturing problem or random failure. Similarly, Mazda was super on board with covering their exploding ND transmissions regardless of use...right up until they weren't anymore.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
8/2/22 6:32 p.m.

I don't think Mazda has started denying transmission warranties based on autox use. I suspect a forced induction track car might be a different matter, and that's justifiable.

pointofdeparture
pointofdeparture UltimaDork
8/2/22 6:37 p.m.

"I'm gun-shy buying the first model year of anything, maybe the second or third model year" I said. "That's not a problem anymore, manufacturers have that stuff figured out these days," the Internet said. frown

Really hope the manufacturers make this right for affected owners. Totally crappy situation!

racerfink
racerfink UberDork
8/2/22 6:40 p.m.
David S. Wallens said:

Some related questions:

Does racing always automatically invalidate a new-car warranty?

Does autocross count as racing? 

What if I enter an autocross and just putt around the course?

 

Chevrolet and Cadillac say Hi!

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
8/2/22 8:07 p.m.
dps214 said:
David S. Wallens said:

Some related questions:

Does racing always automatically invalidate a new-car warranty?

Does autocross count as racing? 

What if I enter an autocross and just putt around the course?

Yeah it gets into a weird area. It seems disingenuous to provide a free track day and membership with a car that you have no intention of warrantying for track use, though Toyota is certainly not the first to go down that path. It's also a bad situation in that hard use might expedite the problem, but clearly isn't the root cause. If we haven't already I bet we'll start seeing non-autocross/track cars having issues soon.

I've definitely heard at least anecdotal cases from other manufacturers of warranty being denied for "abuse" when the root cause was clearly a manufacturing problem or random failure. Similarly, Mazda was super on board with covering their exploding ND transmissions regardless of use...right up until they weren't anymore.

The strange thing according to The Drive article, HPDE/Track Day use is covered by Toyota in the UK.

I wonder why the difference.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
8/2/22 8:44 p.m.

Different corporate entity, I suspect. 

Purple Frog (Forum Supporter)
Purple Frog (Forum Supporter) HalfDork
8/2/22 8:57 p.m.

I was ready to pull the trigger on a GR86.  This whole issue has caused me to pull back.

pimpm3 (Forum Supporter)
pimpm3 (Forum Supporter) UberDork
8/2/22 9:04 p.m.

Motor Trend has picked it up as well

This is certainly gaining momentum.  I wonder how Toyota will respond.

dj06482 (Forum Supporter)
dj06482 (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
8/2/22 9:14 p.m.

The engine failures in the first-gen cars were enough to scare me off. I was really hoping the 2nd generation would be problem-free. Hoping they stand by the warranty - regardless of use. 

dps214
dps214 Dork
8/2/22 9:37 p.m.
Keith Tanner said:

Different corporate entity, I suspect. 

I learned today that there's actually a few different entities within the US even. Most of the cars sold here come directly from Toyota, but cars going to the southeast and mid-south for through one of two private distributors, basically Toyota franchises. Now I'm not exactly sure if that means the warranty claim process goes any differently or if the dealers answer to different people. But it's interesting. The car that's getting all the media attention is from Arkansas I believe, which means it went through one of the private distributors.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
8/2/22 9:42 p.m.

In reply to dps214 :

Yep, Gulf States Toyota.

Arkansas, Oklahoma, Texas, Louisiana, and Mississippi.

From what I've read they have a "reputation" for berkeleyery.

adam525i
adam525i Dork
8/2/22 9:47 p.m.

I'm guessing these failures are showing up with these cars making more frequent runs to redline as I'm sure the oil pan and how it is RTV'd to the engine isn't a whole lot different to any other Subaru.

I can see a point with autocross or track use voiding a warranty, especially when it comes to an oil starvation issue. If someone goes out and throws a set of Hoosiers on their car and starts pulling serious G's is that really Subaru's fault that the engine starved for oil? I'd say that is outside the intended use for a street car. Now if these issues are happening on the stock tires or the oil pickup is plugged up with a bunch of silicone that is a different story. It's a tough call unless they start equipping the ECU's with G sensors to checkup on what the car has seen (not unlike checking for over-revs in the case of an engine failure). 

untchabl
untchabl HalfDork
8/2/22 9:59 p.m.

I honestly can't believe Subaru has any kind of enthusiast support base. I've never owned one and have zero interest in one but they have a horrible reputation for engine failure.

carguy123
carguy123 UltimaDork
8/2/22 10:00 p.m.

I'm curious, are these engines assembled by Subaru and then sold to Toyota or does Toyota assemble them?

pimpm3 (Forum Supporter)
pimpm3 (Forum Supporter) UberDork
8/2/22 10:01 p.m.

The issue at hand is that the failure appears to be caused by an oil pickup tube blocked with excess rtv that came loose in the engine, not a test and tune event as Toyota is alleging.

Several people have been posting pictures of rtv clogged pickup tubes on the GR86/BRZ Facebook groups and forums.  Apparently it is rather common unfortunately.

pimpm3 (Forum Supporter)
pimpm3 (Forum Supporter) UberDork
8/2/22 10:02 p.m.

In reply to carguy123 :

Cars and engines are both made by Subaru.

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