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SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
12/12/17 8:32 a.m.

You guys did have me looking for NB's last night. Didn't realize the prices had dropped as low as they have. 

Robbie
Robbie PowerDork
12/12/17 8:50 a.m.
SVreX said:
Robbie said:

Go drive cars with the drivetrains you are considering. Your Miata will feel a whole lot like they do to drive. Do you want a mid eighties mustang? Or a late nineties Camaro? I think you will be disappointed with how either T5 or T56 shifts compared to Miata, but the T5 predates the Miata by a good margin.

Also, factory engineers spend a lot of time on engine and trans combos. Factory engineers do not review Joe shmoe's adapter plate with a pressure plate, clutch disk, and pilot bearing from 3 different makes.

I think you should hold out for the T56 if you want a v8 Miata.

Oooh... Good word.  

 

You just made it harder on me! wink

You're welcome ;)

gearheadmb
gearheadmb Dork
12/12/17 9:13 a.m.

Have you considered using the 4.8 and auto you have but convert the trans to flappy paddles? 

Robbie
Robbie PowerDork
12/12/17 9:23 a.m.
gearheadmb said:

Have you considered using the 4.8 and auto you have but convert the trans to flappy paddles? 

I'd be interested in this too, but I am weird. I've also never driven a flappy paddle car (that used a real slushbox) where the flappy paddles were actually like shifting. More like indicating to the car that you prefer it to shift sometime in the next week or so.

Maybe you can program some delay out with a megashift or something, but I think you may also have to mechanically jack up the line pressure, which may make normal-driving mode shifts awful. Also, isn't there a big difference for shifting autos depending on the throttle (i.e. shifting up on throttle is a bit of a different thing than shifting down off throttle)?

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
12/12/17 9:43 a.m.

The autos are a tight fit. By that, I mean they impose compromises on things like the passenger footwell and exhaust routing and ground clearance. It's been done a few times, but we've never been able to figure out a way to package it well.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
12/12/17 10:34 a.m.
gearheadmb said:

Have you considered using the 4.8 and auto you have but convert the trans to flappy paddles? 

Yeah, that doesn't do it for me. 

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
12/12/17 10:37 a.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Did you get my PM?

yupididit
yupididit SuperDork
12/12/17 10:53 a.m.

There's a kit (Link) to mount a z32 5speed trans to an LS. It is way smaller than the T56 and can usually be found for under $400. They can handle the power as well and the internals are mostly same as the rb25 trans, sr20 trans, and ka24 trans. The kit + the trans will still come out way cheaper than a T56.

I decided against swapping an LS into my conquest because I didn't want to chop up my firewall and floor to fit the T56. I also didn't want to get some old school sbc manual transmission from 40 years ago or and NV3500 truck transmission. 

yupididit
yupididit SuperDork
12/12/17 10:56 a.m.
G_Body_Man said:

Why not just use a used Nissan CD009 with an LS adapter plate? Way cheaper than a T56. Also, IIRC an FC Turbo II LSD is good until at least 400 HP and should fit nicely.

I've used his CD009 kit on a 1uz back in like 2012. It works and works well. But, you have to get a clutch through him or somehow figure out what he's using because he will not tell you. That annoyed me because I know I could get clutches cheaper than what he's selling them for. Overall, that was my only complaint dealing with Brett Collins.

 

Also, for the LSx to CD00# trans kit you'll have to cut the bellhousing off. 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
12/12/17 11:08 a.m.

One note about NA vs NB: the NB has a very slightly longer engine bay and a stiffer chassis, so it's a bit better of a choice for a swap. The electronic speedo is also easier to live with than the mechanical one in the NA. Pricing these days seems to be more on condition than age.

But it's about what you want to end up with. If you like the look of the NA better than the NB - an easily defensible position - then build the NA. It's about the end result more than it is the work to get there.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
12/12/17 12:02 p.m.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I prefer the NB. Just happen to have an NA. 

I could probably sell my NA for enough to buy a clean NB, so it is a definite possibility. 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
12/12/17 12:12 p.m.

If you prefer the NB, then that's what I'd do. You'll be living with the end result for a while.

JBasham
JBasham Reader
12/12/17 12:19 p.m.

I don't know Miata swaps.  I have done a 302/T5 into an E36, specifically because it was cheaper than an LS package, and lighter.  Your idea of buying one on the hoof really helps.  I have done it both ways, and it's nice to start with a known good motor, EFI and ignition system, starter, etc.  I was able to sell the Foxbody roller for good money too.

I converted the T5 to hydraulic clutch using a Miata slave cylinder and a bracket I made from scraps of square tube, and it works great.  The T5 gate took a little getting used to on the track, but it's actually really satisfying on the street.  The T5 is lighter than the T56 by a long shot, and it's strong enough to handle a built 302.

I'm not sure which Holley heads are on that 95, but from the sounds of the build you should be at 300 hp at the crank, or really close to it.  I'm guessing the MAF transfer function is off with the up-sized injectors and the quick fix is an aftermarket MAF that sells off the shelf "calibrated" to run the stock EEC-IV computer with 24 pounders. 

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
12/12/17 12:23 p.m.

In reply to JBasham :

I'm with you. That's about what I was thinking too on that 95

Rodan
Rodan Reader
12/12/17 12:25 p.m.

An NB will generally offer a better value at a given price point...  stiffer chassis, bigger brakes, etc.  And they are at the bottom of the depreciation curve, while the NAs are climbing in value.  But there's just something about an NA... wink

In an NB, look for an '03-05, or '01-02 with Sport suspension.  They will have the biggest brakes fitted to NA/NB Miatae.  A 6sp trans and/or Torsen rear will recoup some decent $$.

As far as the swap, there's no question the LS is the better, more modern powerplant.  That said, I'm a Ford guy, and still have a soft spot for the little 5.0, and it can easily make your power goal while being quite a bit cheaper than the LS.  There are advantages and disadvantages to each, just have to decide where your priorities lie.

If you already have one of Martin's front subframes, that's a big step right there...  saves either a bunch of $$, or a lot of fab work.

dropstep
dropstep SuperDork
12/12/17 12:38 p.m.

In your situation id go with whatevers well documented. Im an admitted ford fan and love the sound of a 302 with flowmasters. I know t5's will survive behind a 300hp crate motor in a 3100lb car. 

mblommel
mblommel Dork
12/12/17 12:42 p.m.

Make sure you sit in an NB before you buy one. I love NB's and I've owned 3 of them but I don't really fit. At all. I'm 6' with longer legs and a short torso and the ergonomics of the NB don't fit me. I actually fit pretty well in the early NA's, so there is a difference. I never tried the "foamectomy" on the seat cushion. Anyway, I'd go try one out just to make sure.

Rodan
Rodan Reader
12/12/17 12:46 p.m.

I think the difference is mostly in the seats... I really don't like the seats in my NB1.  I'v heard NB2 seats are better, but I've not spent enough time in them to really say.

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
12/12/17 12:47 p.m.

They all benefit from some massaging. Leather seats always offer less room than cloth, and leather got more common with the NBs.

Rodan
Rodan Reader
12/12/17 12:53 p.m.

Hey, Keith...  I don't want to totally jack the thread, but have you guys found any decent aftermarket street seats that fit in NBs?  Some of your conversion customers must be looking for an improvement over stock, without going to race seats...

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
12/12/17 12:57 p.m.

I've never seen a reclining seat that was an improvement over one of the OE options. I've seen some awful ones. Corbeau A4, just say no. You can't beat a stock seat with a foamectomy.

We've done some carbon Tillets and one customer put some Lotus Elise replacement seats in (Corbeaus of some description), but nothing with an adjustable backrest.

SEADave
SEADave HalfDork
12/12/17 12:58 p.m.

Use an LS, and either use the T56 or the Z32 transmission.   Better engine, more aftermarket.  

You guys are giving me the creeps talking about chopping up running Fox bodies and what few 5.0 SN-95's are out there for Miata swaps.      

And finally, if the goal is a faster Miata, I would look really hard at a 2.4 K-series Honda.  I know, not a V8, but (AFAIK) you keep the slick Miata transmission.   The K-series would make a great sports car engine, those things rev to the moon.   

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
12/12/17 1:42 p.m.

In reply to SEADave :

I've looked at the K swaps. There doesn't seem to be a low budget approach. 

NOHOME
NOHOME UltimaDork
12/12/17 1:50 p.m.

Have you discovered Mikes blog yet? He is about the most grassroots Miata V8 converter I know of

http://miatav8.blogspot.ca/2014/01/rear-subframe.html

 

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
12/12/17 2:03 p.m.

In reply to NOHOME :

That's terrific.  Thanks.

Makes the rear diff conversion seem much more doable.

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