Aren't the rings packaged in a box and labeled first and second on the box ?
Aren't the rings packaged in a box and labeled first and second on the box ?
In reply to Cousin_Eddie (Forum Supporter) :
They were, yes.
Okay so you know which are top groove and which are second groove.
The instructions say that lacking a dot, they may be installed either way. The dots are usually quite prominent so you would see them if they were there. So according to the instructions, no worries as long as you get them in the proper groove.
Ok, I'll slap 'em in.
Bleh. Too much stress for a simple engine build
Yes. It's a 300 six which is about the toughest and longest lasting ever made. Follow the manual and don't get distracted.
When I'm doing internal engine work I don't answer the phone, listen to the radio or talk to anyone. Get in the zone and focus so you don't miss any detail.
Cousin_Eddie (Forum Supporter) said:Yes. It's a 300 six which is about the toughest and longest lasting ever made. Follow the manual and don't get distracted.
When I'm doing internal engine work I don't answer the phone, listen to the radio or talk to anyone. Get in the zone and focus so you don't miss any detail.
And no bathroom breaks?
Ok, rings installed. Rod bearings getting delivered the 9th. Oil pump delivered day after. Then I should be able to button it up, slap some paint on it, then haul it over to John's for the install party.
In reply to VolvoHeretic :
5 gallon bucket in the corner, less distractions, more concentration
VolvoHeretic said:Cousin_Eddie (Forum Supporter) said:Yes. It's a 300 six which is about the toughest and longest lasting ever made. Follow the manual and don't get distracted.
When I'm doing internal engine work I don't answer the phone, listen to the radio or talk to anyone. Get in the zone and focus so you don't miss any detail.
And no bathroom breaks?
I usually go with a catheter when putting a rotary together.
I get the humor here. I'm sure I'm more extreme than most. When I got out of high school I went to a two year tech school for aircraft repair and got my A&P licenses and spent some time fixing airplanes. It was ingrained on me quickly and thoroughly that focus and details are critical to completing the job safely and properly. I'm not going to answer a text or chat with a buddy when I'm doing critical work. There'll be plenty of time to do that when the job is complete.
One of my favorite things on GRM is when i see Cousin Eddie and Curtis chime in and contribute their expertise. Now i get to learn how to not screw up piston rings.
TJL (Forum Supporter) said:One of my favorite things on GRM is when i see Cousin Eddie and Curtis chime in and contribute their expertise. Now i get to learn how to not screw up piston rings.
That's very kind of you but Curtis is the one to learn from. Every since I got that steel plate I haven't been able to think too clearly.
In reply to Cousin_Eddie (Forum Supporter) :
The last engine I assembled was almost 10 years ago now, so I'm a bit rusty. Good news is that the engine in question is still running.
In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :
That's why the last engine you assembled was ten years ago?
In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :
Exactly. Just like Gary Larson and Far Side. Get out while you're still good.
I cover all the bases like back when I was teaching some classes on engine assembly. Videos are in a very DIY manner. The first and second video in the series should cover pretty much everything you'll need to know apart from any very specific parts on "newer" engines.
Ok, I'm about ready for next weekend. I just need to disassemble the lifters, drain them of old oil, put them back together and drop them in.
Not sure who was complaining about these type of ring compressors, but this one broke on my halfway through. Had to run to the Hammer Store and buy one. Much better quality than this POS.
And then we spray bomb. Much show. Normal amount of go.
I always loved that Ford blue.
Ok folks.
Rocker arm adjustment. I've found 17-23ft-lbs -OR- tighten till rocker arm is snug and go 1 full turn past.
We started using the snug-then-turn method and went through the firing order twice and the arms were still a little loose after rotation.
We tried the torquing method and it was a full three or four turns past the first setting. The nuts are wet with oil, so that could affect torque specs.
For funsies, I am also using Chevy I6 rocker arms for a slightly better rocker ratio, and I'm not sure if that changes anything.
Mr_Asa said:Ok folks.
Rocker arm adjustment. I've found 17-23ft-lbs -OR- tighten till rocker arm is snug and go 1 full turn past.
For funsies, I am also using Chevy I6 rocker arms for a slightly better rocker ratio, and I'm not sure if that changes anything.
Don't know which Chev I6 you are referencing. A quick goog on a 235 shows 25-30 ft lbs for the torque spec. You verify to be sure.
L5wolvesf said:Mr_Asa said:Ok folks.
Rocker arm adjustment. I've found 17-23ft-lbs -OR- tighten till rocker arm is snug and go 1 full turn past.
For funsies, I am also using Chevy I6 rocker arms for a slightly better rocker ratio, and I'm not sure if that changes anything.
Don't know which Chev I6 you are referencing. A quick goog on a 235 shows 25-30 ft lbs for the torque spec. You verify to be sure.
This is a ford 300. The Chevy I6 rocker arms bolt on to the Ford pedestals for an increase in rocker ratio.
Everything but the rocker arm is Ford.
If they are adjustable, you go around the firing order, taking up all the lash and then going whatever the spec is, usually 1/2-3/4 turn. If you want to be a pedant, you'd get a dial indicator out on the pushrod end and compress the lifter halfway between its travel. Travel might be .030" or .070" or .140" or even .015" with fancy racing lifters.
If they are positive stop pedestals, you torque them, there is no adjustment.
99.999% of Ford engines after 1965 or so are positive stop, the only ones that are adjustable have solid lifters.
What is interesting/scary is that the spec for LS and other Gen III/IV engines is to torque them all, rotate the crankshaft 360 degrees, and torque them again. A handful will turn quite a bit more.
The chevy rocker arms could easily be the variation. The Ford ones might be stamped in a flat plane between the rod/ball/tip and the Chevys might do a little uphill or downhill.
The factory torque spec is good for a factory setup. If the block or head has been decked, a different head gasket used, or if the cam is a re-grind, all bets are off.
Here's the scoop in long version. Engines like the SBC, 300, or the BBF, the factory usually uses a net-lash setup where you torque a nut down on the stud. The torque holds things in place. Some (like the SBC) uses a knurled/crushed nut that acts kind of like a nylock to prevent movement. The reason that they can do a same-for-all is because they are all the same. All SBCs, 300s, and BBF use one deck height, one head geometry, and one cam base circle and cam location in the block. You can install everything, torque it down, and you'll almost certainly be between zero lash and bottomed out. Something like a Pontiac with early and late heads, tall and short deck, different cam base circles, different head gasket thicknesses to fine tune compression etc, needed an adjustable valvetrain.
The problem is, as soon as you change one aspect of the blueprint, you might be outside those parameters.
The solution is super simple. The bottom line is that you need to have the plunger in the lifter compressed within the right range. There is a surprisingly short piston compression, so it's easy to go too far. If you're in the right range with it torqued down, you can just torque it down, but it sounds like that isn't the case for you.
Here's the bulletproof way to do it. Don't use the "spin the pushrod" method to find zero lash. With lube in there you can sometimes blow right past zero lash without even noticing that the pushrod got tighter. Use the (forgive me) masturbation method. Grab the pushrod like a tiny penis and stroke it up and down as you turn the rocker nut. Keep going until the tiny penis gets hard.... I mean stops moving up and down. There's zero. If the studs are coarse thread, go half turn... 180 degrees. If they're fine thread, go 3/4 or 1 turn.
Now... are your rocker nuts a crushed type thread that acts like a locking nut? If so, move on to the next one. If they aren't, you'll want to do one of two things; Find an application that DOES use crush-thread nuts in the right thread/pitch and use those, OR just get some cheap poly-locks. I'm sure you've seen them before. Looks like some variation of this:
These let you spin the nut down and set lash, then you use an allen key to lock the set screw down to the top of the stud, locking it in place. The downside to these is that they rarely fit under stock valve covers.
If you fire it up and have a misfire, chances are you got one of them too tight. If you have a tick, chances are you got one too loose. You can fix it while it's running if you don't mind a little mess. Find the ticking lifter by pressing on the pushrod sides of the rockers until it shuts up. Tighten that nut until the tick stops, then another half turn. If you have a misfire, a good ear can tell if it's puffing through the exhaust or back through the intake. If you can't find it, just start backing off the first nut 1/4 turn. If nothing changes, re-tighten the 1/4 turn. Keep going until you find the solution. Back that one off until it ticks, and repeat the above process.
Edit to add... do you have a spare/junk valve cover? Cut a window in it above the rocker nuts and install it on the head. Then you can do a running adjustment with far less oil mess.
Also, did you follow the firing order? That sounds like a dumb question, and I honestly don't know if you're an old pro at this or just still a pup, but you have to make sure you're on the base circle of the cam for each valve. Easiest way to do that is just follow the firing order. Find TDC on the compression stroke and you can set both valves on #1. Rotate to 120 degrees and set both on #5. Another 120 degrees and set both on #3, etc.
I have a 2000 Chevy Impala 3.4 that I'm currently doing a restore on. I'm rebuilding the engine and I want to build it up a little. There's not a lot of mods for this engine. How much gain can I expect if I bore it out?
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