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chaparral
chaparral Dork
1/16/19 8:01 a.m.

1) The car is ancient, with no real hope for a replacement 

2) Sales of the whole segment are way down

3) People who are of the age and demographic to want the car can't afford it

4) Nissan is a budget brand

5) All of the equipment used to build the car is fully amortized by now

So, what Nissan needs to do is to make the base price of the car $19,995. They can't lose more money this way than having the cars stacked up on the lot, and at least it'll be back in the public eye. 

Knurled.
Knurled. MegaDork
1/16/19 8:09 a.m.

....and piss off the people who bought them at $40k or whatever.

 

 

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
1/16/19 8:14 a.m.

1) There is a new Infiniti chassis for their coupe, right?

2) True, but having an 11 year old car with no real updates isn't helping. 

3) Sure we can, but at this point, who wants to buy an 11-year old car in the mid-$30s when there are nicer, faster, and newer options. 

4) The cheap interiors don't help their sales. 

5) Maybe, but the car needs updates. And I'm sure raw material prices have gone up dramatically + inflation over the last decade would make a $20k sports car impossible to build. 

RX8driver
RX8driver Reader
1/16/19 8:14 a.m.

A year or so ago they announced a $10k drop in MSRP for the Canadian market 370's at least. That would have really pissed some people off, especially as it would have immediately wiped at least that much book value off their used car, potentially putting them under water on their loans.

chaparral
chaparral Dork
1/16/19 8:15 a.m.

At least they'd know their car had a present as well as a past, and parts support for a fair few years longer

STM317
STM317 SuperDork
1/16/19 8:15 a.m.

Sales don't matter to most businesses. Profit does. Cutting the MSRP by 1/3 could increase sales volume, but it isn't going to help profits. The whole "sales volume over profit" thing hasn't been working for anybody in the auto industry recently. Everybody is cutting back on vehicles with lower profit margins in favor of high margin vehicles. Nissan has been propping up sales volume in recent years by selling a bunch of vehicles to rental fleets and stuff, but those low cost sales just provide some cash flow on the front end, while hurting resale and residuals on the back end of every vehicle they sell. It makes the entire brand less desirable.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
1/16/19 8:26 a.m.

I think a good start would be to create a new chassis for the powertrain to make a slimmed-down 240Z-inspired Toyobaru competitor, this would also give them an opportunity to make a good-looking car for a change. The 370Z took the OK-looking 350Z and turned it into an aesthetically confused clusterberkeley with headlights that look like they're glitching through the bodywork and 240Z side windows hackishly jammed onto the sides in a cheap grab for nostalgia points.

Of course that would mean they'd be competing in a niche that's well known for not selling much. Hard truth is that the whole affordable sport compact/low-end sports car segment is endangered, the cars can't get much cheaper but the customers who would usually go for them have less and less money to spend - most of the people who could afford such cars could just as easily afford a midrange or high-end sports car so they go for those instead.

racerdave600
racerdave600 UltraDork
1/16/19 8:59 a.m.

They are far cheaper than when I bought mine back in 2012.  Mine listed for $44k, but I still had a large discount off of that price since it was a left over '11.  The new ones do not have the same interior materials that the older ones had, they've definitely cheapened them up.  Around here you can buy a new one for $28k, which seems like a bargain.  Personally I'm happy they are still around.  Sure they're dated, but a couple of years from now when everything is a 2 liter four, we'll all be moaning about where did the big 6cyl coupes go.  laugh

Vigo
Vigo UltimaDork
1/16/19 9:00 a.m.

Granted that the Nissan Z concept was hideous, but it was the right size. If the 350z had come out at that size with the power and handling it had, it would have been the second coming and the entire sports car landscape since would be different.  Picturing an FR-S but with 350z power and derpier early-00s styling is about right. 

Snrub
Snrub HalfDork
1/16/19 9:13 a.m.

I live in Canada so the base price is pretty competitive at ~$32 CDN = $24k US. I believe there is an impact on sales volumes. Comparing sales US vs. Canada for 2018 it was 3468 vs. 626 and in 2017 it was 4614 vs. 965. The population difference is 10:1 and we have a colder climate which should hurt sales. I'm sure Nissan has done the math and decided what makes sense. 

Up here, I still think it's a compelling option. I went through this evaluation in the fall. I think it is very fun to drive. Cars it compares to would be the 86, Miata/124, base Mustang, base Camaro, GTI, Civic Si, Velostar Turbo/N. All of those are low sales vehicles. It's RWD, so it's better than the last 3. The short wheelbase and low motion suspension is fun. I think the looks have held up well over time. It's engine is okay, it's nice and linear and certainly better than the 86's. The power is adequate. I think the Miata/124 and Camaro are the only ones with driving dynamics in the same league. Do yourself a favor a remove the Camaro from the list. So for an old car it stacks up surprisingly well.

Dave M
Dave M Reader
1/16/19 9:41 a.m.

Between the Toyobaru, the Miata and the current-gen Mustang and Camaro, there's a reason nobody buys them. Is Nissan going to invest big money to beat these cars to small sales? Nope. 

Nissan will continue to focus on subprime.

pres589 (djronnebaum)
pres589 (djronnebaum) PowerDork
1/16/19 9:48 a.m.

It should be replaced or killed entirely, not sold as a loss leader.  Maybe pull a Fiat and build something out of the MX-5 as a coupe-only solution?  And then... put a Renault engine in it?  What Nissan-only engine would go in this thing?  

I agree that Toyobaur, Miata, Mustang (somehow I imagine that there's not much cross shopping between Camaro, Challenger, and 370), and other options that there's little reason to even glance as the 370z.  And personally I think the 370z is the worst looking of everything mentioned but that's my own deal.

Run_Away
Run_Away Dork
1/16/19 10:49 a.m.

Yep, in 2016 they chopped $10k off the base price in Canada.

 

Base model MSRP in the USA: $29,990 USD

Base model MSRP in Canada: $29,998 CAD which Google says is $22,650.59 USD at the time of this post.

 

Gearheadotaku
Gearheadotaku UltimaDork
1/16/19 10:51 a.m.

I like the 370z much more than the 350z. However I cannot afford either so I'm not much help. Marketing departments need to convince people that SUVs aren't cool and push sportscars instead. (As if that will ever happen)

Snrub
Snrub HalfDork
1/16/19 11:02 a.m.
pres589 (djronnebaum) said:

It should be replaced or killed entirely, not sold as a loss leader.  Maybe pull a Fiat and build something out of the MX-5 as a coupe-only solution?  And then... put a Renault engine in it?  What Nissan-only engine would go in this thing?  

I agree that Toyobaur, Miata, Mustang (somehow I imagine that there's not much cross shopping between Camaro, Challenger, and 370), and other options that there's little reason to even glance as the 370z.  And personally I think the 370z is the worst looking of everything mentioned but that's my own deal.

I think pulling a Fiat is a great idea. Mainline manufacturers that want a small sports car should be looking at modifying the Miata. For the slightly more ambitious with a little deeper pockets, I have to believe the platform could be enlarged a little bit too. In Nissan's case, I suspect a version of the 2.0L turbo variable compression engine would be the only available choice.

I cross shopped the above and made the wrong decision. 370Z or Miata would have been a much better choice.

93gsxturbo
93gsxturbo SuperDork
1/16/19 11:17 a.m.

The 350 and 370 were always sort of slow turds.  Every one around here in Milwaukee has disappeared with the exception of a few StanceBroMobiles.  I honestly couldnt tell you the last time I saw one.  

 

Joe Gearin
Joe Gearin Associate Publisher
1/16/19 11:29 a.m.

In reply to Knurled. :

That's what Toyota did with the IV Supra.   After no one was buying them for $50K, they dropped the price by nearly $10K.... and still few people bought them.   Sure did piss off those who paid "full price".  Imagine the depreciation!  

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH MegaDork
1/16/19 11:39 a.m.
93gsxturbo said:

The 350 and 370 were always sort of slow turds.  Every one around here in Milwaukee has disappeared with the exception of a few StanceBroMobiles.  I honestly couldnt tell you the last time I saw one.  

 

They're popular for use as cheap drift missiles so they're probably all getting balled up on track.

Duke
Duke MegaDork
1/16/19 11:45 a.m.
93gsxturbo said:

The 350 and 370 were always sort of slow turds.  Every one around here in Milwaukee has disappeared with the exception of a few StanceBroMobiles.  I honestly couldnt tell you the last time I saw one. 

Around here, oddly enough I mostly see NISMO 370s.  All the lower trims have been used up at this point, but the NISMOs tend to get taken care of, or at least fixed instead of disposed of.

pres589 (djronnebaum)
pres589 (djronnebaum) PowerDork
1/16/19 11:55 a.m.

I always liked the looks of the 350z although it seemed a little gimmicky, like the little dots on the door handles, stuff like that.  I thought the styling of the 370 was over the top.

racerdave600
racerdave600 UltraDork
1/16/19 12:15 p.m.
93gsxturbo said:

The 350 and 370 were always sort of slow turds.  Every one around here in Milwaukee has disappeared with the exception of a few StanceBroMobiles.  I honestly couldnt tell you the last time I saw one.  

 

???  Define slow?  

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
1/16/19 12:42 p.m.
racerdave600 said:
93gsxturbo said:

The 350 and 370 were always sort of slow turds.  Every one around here in Milwaukee has disappeared with the exception of a few StanceBroMobiles.  I honestly couldnt tell you the last time I saw one.  

 

???  Define slow?  

The relatively heavy weight + very linear engine isn't as "Exciting" as say a turbo engine with a bit of lag that "hits hard" up top. 

93gsxturbo
93gsxturbo SuperDork
1/16/19 12:58 p.m.
z31maniac said:
racerdave600 said:
93gsxturbo said:

The 350 and 370 were always sort of slow turds.  Every one around here in Milwaukee has disappeared with the exception of a few StanceBroMobiles.  I honestly couldnt tell you the last time I saw one.  

 

???  Define slow?  

The relatively heavy weight + very linear engine isn't as "Exciting" as say a turbo engine with a bit of lag that "hits hard" up top. 

The 370 is about a second faster in the quarter than a V6 Rav4.  350Z is about the same as a V6 Rav4.  Not exactly what I would call fast.  I remember getting ghetto stomped in my friends 350Z against my other friends 1993 5.0 Mustang with just long tubes and gears.  Like holy smokes tail lights.  And the 5.0 was really nothing special.  

dean1484
dean1484 MegaDork
1/16/19 1:14 p.m.

Dam. They are that old now?  I still think of the 370 as a relatively new car. Where did the time go. 

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
1/16/19 1:16 p.m.

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

There was a time when the V6 Rav4 was the fastest car that Toyota sold.  So, to re-phrase your observation, "the 370Z and 350z is/was faster or just about as fast as the fastest car that Toyota offered at the same/similar time." 

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