How to shift a flipped vw transaxle

With my recent acquisition of a metric asstonne of VW parts, many things have been floating around in my head, including mid engine things or front engine things.  Both of which are accomplished by flipping the ring gear in a vw transmission.  But when you flip the transmissions around your solid rod shifter is no longer a straight shot through the tunnel.  
 

not that I need another project, but the stuff was so cheap as a bundle that I could probably build something very light for a future challenge for almost nothing

Look for pics of Formula Vees, they range in the region from intricate to the stone simple.  I'm doing it now and the methods are quite... diverse.

IIRC, 914s didn't shift very well until they made a mid engine specific shift mechanism in the trans that came out the side.  This of course is hearsay, as I have never had chance to drive a 914 of either flavor.

check out the 550 Porsche replica forum as they are also mid engine and use VW  gearboxes , 

plus tons of sand rails. also used the VW gearbox , ......

You also want to make sure the shift pattern stays the same......

I had a Formula Vee autocross car years ago. The shift linkage was pretty straight forward, just one U-joint in it IIRC.

Could you do something better and more modern using cables and a transplanted FWD shifter assembly that uses the same pattern?

Knurled. said:

IIRC, 914s didn't shift very well until they made a mid engine specific shift mechanism in the trans that came out the side.  This of course is hearsay, as I have never had chance to drive a 914 of either flavor.

 

 

 

914 side shifters are an improvement over the tail  shifter but they still have long sloppy throws compared to modern trannys.

My first thought is cables if you can make that work. You can come at the transmission from any angle to make the push/pull orientation line up. 

I would imagine ariel atom type cars have a solution as well. They use Honda motors if I remember correctly. 

I had a friend with an FV autocrosser and he switched it to a cable shifter and was much happier. 

Ooh cables.  Didnt think of that.  I am not gonna lie, ive been having thoughts of flipping one to the front and building a twin engine AWD challenge car.  I have a hacked up pan, IRS with 944 aluminum arms, cv's, 2 transmissions,enough to assemble several motors, and a stock car IFS that i could likely adapt some spindles to that could take a stub axle.  

With the swing axle trans you can just flip the trans over instead of messing with the ring gear. Doesn't help you but it's kinda fun in it's own way.

Patrick said:

Ooh cables.  Didnt think of that.  I am not gonna lie, ive been having thoughts of flipping one to the front and building a twin engine AWD challenge car.  I have a hacked up pan, IRS with 944 aluminum arms, cv's, 2 transmissions,enough to assemble several motors, and a stock car IFS that i could likely adapt some spindles to that could take a stub axle.  

Uh, you know the 924/944 front suspension is based around a reversed Mk1 Golf suspension, right?  So some early Golf/Rabbit uprights (which will have stub axles, etc.) and could likely be built to accept the same axles front and rear to keep things simple.

Just a thought, but I'm sure there's something I'm missing that would make that not work without a ton of work.

rustybugkiller said:

Knurled. said:

IIRC, 914s didn't shift very well until they made a mid engine specific shift mechanism in the trans that came out the side.  This of course is hearsay, as I have never had chance to drive a 914 of either flavor.

 

 

 

914 side shifters are an improvement over the tail  shifter but they still have long sloppy throws compared to modern trannys.

 

Patrick said:

Ooh cables.  Didnt think of that.  I am not gonna lie, ive been having thoughts of flipping one to the front and building a twin engine AWD challenge car.  I have a hacked up pan, IRS with 944 aluminum arms, cv's, 2 transmissions,enough to assemble several motors, and a stock car IFS that i could likely adapt some spindles to that could take a stub axle.  

One of my stupider-yet-brillianter ideas is to stick a non scrody engine on a Vanagon transmission and mount it "normally" (engine behind transmission) in a front wheel drive car.  The idea being a front driver with low polar inertia, so maybe it will turn in like front drivers generally don't.

RX-7s have enough engine bay space that this could work, and you could probably stick half a rotary in the trans tunnel if you had an electric water pump.

The CV axles with the 6 bolt, 90mm bolt pattern for mk1 Golf/Jetta/Rabbit bolt up to my IRS superbeetle transaxle. 

Front wheel drive VW Air-cooled has been built by VW a couple of times , 

In VW Golf in Brazil  was a Golf type car that first came with an Air-cooled bug motor , 

And VW built a few basic local made trucks in Mexico , Philippines and Turkey in the 70s that were front wheel drive Air-cooled and looked like a metal shop class built them !

Did this with a few Vees.  As was mentioned above its pretty much just a rod and u-joint affair.

Now I hear your question, doesn't that reverse the shift pattern.  Well not really.  In a standard bug the actuation of the rod is done below the pivot point.   On a vee it is moved above the pivot point thus un reversing the reversal if that makes any sense.

Oooohhh Jim, that makes everything make sense now.  
 

2 transmissions, one fore and one aft, with the shift rods located 1 above and 1 below the pivot point, equal distances from it, would net shifting both at the same time in the same pattern.  
 

right now all this is in my head, and it may never come to fruition, but it's fun imagineering stuff.

In reply to Patrick :

Wonder how the twin engine Scirocco was for the shifter.  I remember there was juat one shifter for both transmissions.

Twin engines would be amazing. Shifting shouldn't be too tough to get right. Your bigger problem will be clutching. VW clutches are cable operated and the hook on the pedal cluster the pulls the clutch cable is already a weak link, and they snap off with stock clutches fairly often (which is how I learned to drive without clutching when I was 16). I'm sure you could figure is out though. So many valves to lash. Oh, also 4 carbs!

The sand rail i bought has a cnc hydro clutch conversion so it would be as easy as taking that bracket off, cloning it, and getting a couple master and slave cylinders that work.  

Patrick said:

Oooohhh Jim, that makes everything make sense now.  
 

2 transmissions, one fore and one aft, with the shift rods located 1 above and 1 below the pivot point, equal distances from it, would net shifting both at the same time in the same pattern.  
 

right now all this is in my head, and it may never come to fruition, but it's fun imagineering stuff.

yep, you got it, I can see it all clearly in my head and it sounds like you can too but if I need to draw it out let me know.  I was going to do something similar with the YFH by putting an X19 drivetrain in the back end :)