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Andy Neuman
Andy Neuman SuperDork
3/24/22 8:03 p.m.

Wait for the 23 type r because it looks a little more tame? 

Datsun310Guy
Datsun310Guy MegaDork
3/24/22 9:00 p.m.
Andy Neuman said:

Wait for the 23 type r because it looks a little more tame? 

I stopped where we bought our '18 Pilot and they acted like asshats.

They said they had a list and it's going to take forever to get one.  

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
3/24/22 9:01 p.m.

In reply to Slippery :

Wow I didn't know an Si could do that with a tune.

I just ordered a '22 Si and now have to wait until June for build, and original estimate was end of April build....   But I digress.

One of the reasons I bought it is that it is a fun to drive yet practical sedan type car.  I'm also planning to commute in it for some pretty serious miles and the fuel economy isn't too shabby.  If I had a shorter commute and more money to spend, I'd probably buy an R and rallycross the heck out of it.  In fact the dealer asked me if I wanted an R because they sell more Rs than Sis, but that's probably because this dealer doesn't do insane mark ups.  They are selling me the Si at MSRP, so they say.  I will have to wait and see. 

I may autoX it some and take it to a few HPDEs too.  If it were just a hobby car to be used at fun events, an R would be more appealing, damn the silly looks. 

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
3/24/22 9:11 p.m.
pointofdeparture said:
bobzilla said:
93EXCivic said:

Elantra N?

First reply, still the right answer.

Perennial Honda fanboys Car and Driver just confirmed yesterday that they think the new Elantra N is superior to both Honda and VW's offerings. I feel like that is pretty high praise.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a39430142/2022-honda-civic-si-hyundai-elantra-n-vw-jetta-gli-compared/

Why are they comparing the N to the Si?  In Hyundai speak N=Type R.  Hence all the Veloster N vs CTR comparisons.

Si is more in line with the "N-line" (1.6t, 201hp), where I would expect the Si to have the advantage because torsen.

 

Every time I see one of these its makes me angry that Hyundai doesn't just make 4 door Veloster.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
3/24/22 9:56 p.m.

In reply to ProDarwin :

A 4 door Veloster would be perfect.  Or at least put the 2 doors side on the driver side the way Saturn did it..

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
3/24/22 10:25 p.m.

In reply to ProDarwin :

Because a 4 door Veloster would be twice as ugly?  I get it; it's a cool car, but it has negative appeal to me.  I just can't get over the exterior appearance.  I know it's just me and some people really dig it, but it looks like an update brought to you from the folks that designed the Aztec and 1st gen Nissan Juke to me. 

 

 

GTwannaB
GTwannaB HalfDork
3/24/22 10:41 p.m.

If we are posting Elantra N videos.

 

N vs WRX

https://youtu.be/bCNGgbrwbOE

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
3/24/22 11:03 p.m.
ProDarwin said:
pointofdeparture said:
bobzilla said:
93EXCivic said:

Elantra N?

First reply, still the right answer.

Perennial Honda fanboys Car and Driver just confirmed yesterday that they think the new Elantra N is superior to both Honda and VW's offerings. I feel like that is pretty high praise.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a39430142/2022-honda-civic-si-hyundai-elantra-n-vw-jetta-gli-compared/

Why are they comparing the N to the Si?  In Hyundai speak N=Type R.  Hence all the Veloster N vs CTR comparisons.

Si is more in line with the "N-line" (1.6t, 201hp), where I would expect the Si to have the advantage because torsen.

 

Every time I see one of these its makes me angry that Hyundai doesn't just make 4 door Veloster.

I'm guessing the prices are much closer together?

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
3/24/22 11:06 p.m.
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to ProDarwin :

Because a 4 door Veloster would be twice as ugly?  I get it; it's a cool car, but it has negative appeal to me.  I just can't get over the exterior appearance.  I know it's just me and some people really dig it, but it looks like an update brought to you from the folks that designed the Aztec and 1st gen Nissan Juke to me. 

To me the rear 3/4 is ugly, the rest of the car isn't terrible.  IMO the R Spec Veloster was better looking than the N, and a lot better looking than the Elantra N.

But more importantly, the driver's door is huuuuuuuuuge and a major downside to the car (and also lack of a 4th door is the reason one wouldn't be considered by the OP).

 

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
3/24/22 11:14 p.m.
z31maniac said:

I'm guessing the prices are much closer together?

That's fair, but to me statements like "Class-leading acceleration and handling" seem out of place.

To me, the comparo is similar priced cars, mixed classing.

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
3/25/22 1:33 a.m.

In reply to ProDarwin :

I like R spec more too.

AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter)
AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
3/25/22 1:41 a.m.

In reply to pointofdeparture :

Let's see the same test with the Honda wearing the same tires as the Hyundai.  The PS4 is an amazing tire.  

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
3/25/22 6:07 a.m.

In reply to ProDarwin :

Price. The si and n are within $2k of each other. The n-line is $9k cheaper. 

Chrissmith
Chrissmith New Reader
3/25/22 6:23 a.m.

The Ford GT is not very good.

The Corvette is not very good

GT-R is not very good

But the Civic Type-R is very very good!

kevinatfms
kevinatfms HalfDork
3/25/22 6:34 a.m.

Ford Fusion Sport? 2.7L Twin Turbo Ecoboost and all wheel drive. They do have a small aftermarket but a tune, intercooler and downpipes is enough to make it a rocket on e30-e50 fuel. 

calteg
calteg Dork
3/25/22 9:41 a.m.

In reply to kevinatfms :

Fairly heavy. I believe another GRM'er mentioned that the brakes and suspension aren't up to snuff, especially for track work. If MPGs matter at all, the CTR will get siginifcantly better gas mileage than the Fusion

docwyte
docwyte PowerDork
3/25/22 10:17 a.m.

Out of all the suggestions the RS3 is the best all rounder.  They're very nice inside, quite civilized but that 5 cylinder motor is an animal.  They're running 10 second quarter miles with just a tune.  Back seat will be a little cramped but no more than a Golf R or CTR.  Advantage to both the hatchbacks when you need to carry something awkwardly shaped.

I liked my Golf R, it was a very nice car that did everything well, and with a few tweaks was sneaky fast.  It does give up performance stock to stock to the CTR but there's no way I could ever buy a car as fugly as the CTR.

pointofdeparture
pointofdeparture UltimaDork
3/25/22 12:52 p.m.

In reply to ProDarwin :

I get what you are saying but there is a certain point where a car that is $10-15k more expensive to the average person in the real world isn't the same class, despite what the manufacturer says.

In some theoretical future Porsche might introduce some sub-Boxster convertible for $65k with similar specs to the Miata, but does that make them competitors?

FWIW, C&D does often mix up different variations of tests with the same cars, so I wouldn't be surprised to see the N go up against the CTR when the latter is actually available. But you cannot currently buy a new 2022 CTR from Honda, so I get why they used the Si.

 

In reply to AnthonyGS (Forum Supporter) :

Maybe Honda should start selling their stuff with PS4s! wink

It would be cool to see tests of these kind of things with normalized rubber but I get that the intent is to test "as the manufacturer sells it".

At least we can usually draw some conclusions in the enthusiast market when autocross/TT times and what not start getting posted.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
3/25/22 1:08 p.m.

I like the RS3 myself BUT. If you plan on doing trunkful things, check out the trunk volume to make sure it is enough for what you want.

Also, used RS3s are still in the $50-55k range locally.  Ooooof.

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim MegaDork
3/25/22 1:34 p.m.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

They're definitely in the "more than I would want to pay in this case" range.

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim MegaDork
3/25/22 1:44 p.m.
docwyte said:

Out of all the suggestions the RS3 is the best all rounder.  They're very nice inside, quite civilized but that 5 cylinder motor is an animal.  They're running 10 second quarter miles with just a tune.  Back seat will be a little cramped but no more than a Golf R or CTR.  Advantage to both the hatchbacks when you need to carry something awkwardly shaped.

That was definitely one of the considerations as to why I would prefer a hot hatch or station wagon, although my wife kinda disapproves of the latter. With the Alfa, there were enough times of me having to take my truck simply because whatever i was picking up would've fitted in a hatchback, but didn't in a sedan.

I liked my Golf R, it was a very nice car that did everything well, and with a few tweaks was sneaky fast.  It does give up performance stock to stock to the CTR but there's no way I could ever buy a car as fugly as the CTR.

Well, taste and me aren't necessarily best buddies, so I quite like the CTR, but as mentioned, something more toned down would be useful (like the Golf).

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim MegaDork
3/25/22 1:54 p.m.
dannyp84 said:

Is a Pontiac G8 too old? Used Panameras are cheaper than a Type R and are maybe more fun to drive than they look?

I think this depends a lot on how I would end up using the car and where I'd get it from. I live on the southern edge of the salt belt, so in general, halfway local-ish cars just don't tend to last that long and stay presentable. That's one of the reasons for potentially looking for something newer.

OTOH my current commute mainly involves dragging my sorry behind down the hallway to my office, so it's not likely my daily actually gets used daily. I mostly call it a daily to ensure I mentally prepare to buy a vehicle that's at least halfway useful, lest I accidentally end up with something as practical as an X1/9.

I haven't driven a Panamera - I have been a passenger in one as a friend of mine occasionally had one as a loaner. They seem very Germanically Competent, but didn't exactly elicit an immediate "must buy" response.

Andy Neuman
Andy Neuman SuperDork
3/25/22 2:28 p.m.
Datsun310Guy said:
Andy Neuman said:

Wait for the 23 type r because it looks a little more tame? 

I stopped where we bought our '18 Pilot and they acted like asshats.

They said they had a list and it's going to take forever to get one.  

True, there is a waiting list for everything new. I've been waiting months so far for the minivan I wanted.

BoxheadTim
BoxheadTim MegaDork
3/25/22 4:43 p.m.
Andy Neuman said:

Wait for the 23 type r because it looks a little more tame? 

Has that actually been officially revealed yet? It does appear to be Honda's worst kept secret, but I hadn't noticed it being officially announced yet.

pointofdeparture
pointofdeparture UltimaDork
3/25/22 5:21 p.m.
BoxheadTim said:
Andy Neuman said:

Wait for the 23 type r because it looks a little more tame? 

Has that actually been officially revealed yet? It does appear to be Honda's worst kept secret, but I hadn't noticed it being officially announced yet.

It's official: https://automobiles.honda.com/future-cars/2023-civic-type-r

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