Small block Ford with some serious punch. would you rather do this or go boost
Small block Ford with some serious punch. would you rather do this or go boost
Imagine where you'd be if you spent that kind of money and time on a REAL 460....
Trans_Maro wrote: Imagine where you'd be if you spent that kind of money and time on a REAL 460....
An inch lower, for starters 
385-series engines are huge. Lots of mass. Ford engine bays are pretty cramped, too, so that is another good reason to keep to a small-block if you can.
I'd love to have that in my Bronco, with an intake and cam setup for bottom end torque...
That said, a 392 Windsor makes a lot more sense in the real world.
The article said it was for use in an early mustang. For that use it makes sense, especially if it wasn't a factory BB car.
One of the mustang magizines back in the late nineties did a similar build turning a Windsor block into a 427 for a factory five Cobra kit build. They even had adapters made so that FE high rise valve covers would fit.
So, it's not a new idea. To do it right also isn't cheap.
I'd love to know how one of these would work in a DD. I suspect it might run a little hot.
In reply to Knurled:
There's one in my truck and one in my wife's Lincoln. I'm really partial to the 385 series engines. The 454 in our Suburban doesn't even come close to the power the 460 in my F-250 makes.
If it doesn't fit in the Mustang, just put it in a Torino. 
Oddly enough, I am working on a 540ci 385 in a Torino. Access to everything sucks. The headers are three-piece on each side and you can't turn the steering wheel if the suspension is drooping at all. The power steering had to disappear. And it's danged hard to get a decent transmission behind it too, if you want overdrive.
After RTFA, I'm still cringing. A 289 in an early Mustang is a tight squeeze. A 351W is really tight. A 351W with some extra deck height on top is gonna really suck!
(note: My first car had a 429, my third had a 460, I have never EVER owned anything with a small-block... but I greatly understand the why for this)
In reply to Knurled:
Started compensating young, then. 
This engine has got to be expensive- it's a custom block. Not a small block where someone sleeved the heck out of a hole that was cut far bigger than the cylinder walls take space into. And cut space for a much larger crank.
For this crowd, it matters, to the actual customers of who they are building for, I doubt they care much. More than likely ecstatic that it exists.
In reply to Knurled:
Ha, come to work and tell our former apprentice (now a journeyman) that a Windsor is tight in an early Mustang.
He just finished restoring a '67 GT500KR.
I think he created some new profanity working on that thing.
Trans_Maro wrote: In reply to Knurled: Ha, come to work and tell our former apprentice (now a journeyman) that a Windsor is tight in an early Mustang. He just finished restoring a '67 GT500KR. I think he created some new profanity working on that thing.
That's an FE. I gotta think that they'd be a little worse to mess with than a Windsor. Wait. That was your point. ;)
alfadriver wrote: This engine has got to be expensive- it's a custom block. Not a small block where someone sleeved the heck out of a hole that was cut far bigger than the cylinder walls take space into. And cut space for a much larger crank.
Not so much as you'd think. It's not a custom block, it's off the shelf. Ford small-blocks also have the distinct advantage over Brand C that their camshafts are pretty high and the pan rails are pretty wide. There's a lot of room for more stroke, even in a production block. (You can go over 400ci with a production 351W no problem, and that's going to be all stroke)
As far as sleeving goes... Before the big-inch LS blocks were available, we were boring the sleeves and cylinders out of production LS1 blocks and re-sleeving. Major processes involved. IIRC we were getting $3k for that. Maybe it was $6k. Long time ago. Then GMPP came out with a 7-liter-ready block for not much more... But that's starting with aluminum which is much nicer to draw outside the lines with. Iron is a bit more tricky to work with when you're boring the cylinders through to air and then sleeving the lattice left over (Although I guess it used to be common in the 1970s when NASCAR required production blocks... 351Cs would get their paper thin cylinders removed entirely and quarter inch thick cylinders furnace-brazed into place)
Trans_Maro wrote: In reply to Knurled: Ha, come to work and tell our former apprentice (now a journeyman) that a Windsor is tight in an early Mustang. He just finished restoring a '67 GT500KR. I think he created some new profanity working on that thing.
No doubt! And the '67 is Fairlane based, not Falcon based like the early Mustangs!
Pretty impressive numbers for a "low", premium pump gas friendly, compression ratio of 10.6:1.
I'm not a big fan of strokers (1.47:1 rod/stroke ratio...ewww) but I can appreciate the streetable monster small block that they built.
I usually go for a long rod, big bore, and a short stroke...
Knurled wrote:alfadriver wrote: This engine has got to be expensive- it's a custom block. Not a small block where someone sleeved the heck out of a hole that was cut far bigger than the cylinder walls take space into. And cut space for a much larger crank.Not so much as you'd think. It's not a custom block, it's off the shelf. Ford small-blocks also have the distinct advantage over Brand C that their camshafts are pretty high and the pan rails are pretty wide. There's a lot of room for more stroke, even in a production block. (You can go over 400ci with a production 351W no problem, and that's going to be all stroke) As far as sleeving goes... Before the big-inch LS blocks were available, we were boring the sleeves and cylinders out of production LS1 blocks and re-sleeving. Major processes involved. IIRC we were getting $3k for that. Maybe it was $6k. Long time ago. Then GMPP came out with a 7-liter-ready block for not much more... But that's starting with aluminum which is much nicer to draw outside the lines with. Iron is a bit more tricky to work with when you're boring the cylinders through to air and then sleeving the lattice left over
It says that it's a non Ford block, though. And to make it fit all of that, it would be the most effective to be custom.
Still, it's not an engine out of an Explorer or anything like that, it's a small block design for a big bore and long crank.
Knurled wrote: No doubt! And the '67 is Fairlane based, not Falcon based like the early Mustangs!
I didn't know that!
Never been much of a Mustang fan myself.
Now, the 1970 Torino is a different story.
Needs EFI, but that's a sweet engine.
Knurled wrote: Ford small-blocks also have the distinct advantage over Brand C that their camshafts are pretty high and the pan rails are pretty wide. There's a lot of room for more stroke, even in a production block. (You can go over 400ci with a production 351W no problem, and that's going to be all stroke)
Mopar got this right as well. It's really more of a "Chevies don't have much room for growth in there" problem than anything else. In Mopar land, a 318 goes to 390 easily, a 360 goes to 408 and if you do a little clearancing, 426. And that's in the production blocks. The aftermarket blocks can go a little further and have room for more bore. IIRC, people have gone up to around 470 ci.
alfadriver wrote: It says that it's a non Ford block, though. And to make it fit all of that, it would be the most effective to be custom. Still, it's not an engine out of an Explorer or anything like that, it's a small block design for a big bore and long crank.
In 2017, though, that isn't really a stumbling block anymore, since cylinder head design and camshaft profiles are crazy enough that you'd need a stronger block than factory anyway.
351Ws aren't the noodles that 302 blocks are, but 650+hp isn't something I'd feel comfortable running with 40-50 year old iron for very long. And that is after you find a core block that actually will clean up at only .030 or maybe .040 over, and doesn't need to be decked or line-bored all to heck.
What has ME interested are the 4.125" bore 8.2 deck height blocks. Even the 8.2 deck height can take a 3.5" stroke easily. That's 379ci in a 302-sized package, and the block won't split up the middle over 450hp either. ('Course, I'd want to do something with a 3.0 or even a 2.87" crank, because I like big bore short stroke screamers of engines. See also: First car had a 429, which has a shorter stroke than the 1.9l in my Volvo...)
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