frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
1/29/22 3:44 p.m.

In reply to NOT A TA :

Thanks. Tips like that are helpful. . Yes I'll use fleet white.  In fact I'll need details as to what to mix with what since I'm going to shop for low prices and that usually doesn't come with information. 
     Information as to what size tip to use on the HF gun.   Brands never to consider no matter how cheap they seem. I'll assume that like Lacquer it's best to keep all the same brand?  
  Is there Temperature sensitivity like lacquer thinner? 
 How long to dry before I can sand?   Is there a window where sanding is possible and still allows a localized Re spray? 
   Humidity isn't a problem in the winter and early spring. In fact it typically isn't bad until well into July. 
   However  my cars will be in the shop.  Never outdoors unless racing.  In the near 60 years I've been racing  ( I raced hobby stocks at age 14 ) I've had one trivial accident on track  that took me 10-15 minutes to repair.   I have had garage and trailer rash though.  
In the winter the shop is 70 degree plus. And in the summer it's 60 degrees or less. The boat house doors lakeside allow a cool breeze off the lake to keep the shop pleasant  when I open the garage door even on a calm day I can get air flowing through. 
   If the bugs are bad I can close everything up and the A/C from upstairs  will keep the shop pleasant.    
 I tend to use 3 M products for my PPE  they are local and family members can help with discounts. 

1SlowVW
1SlowVW HalfDork
1/29/22 6:35 p.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

Every question you have asked will be addressed in the tds/info sheet for the product used.

The document will give you all that but in short yes. Temperature will decide which activator you use with most product. You will have a window of time to cut out runs and respray and area and another amount of time you that you have to wait before wet sanding. 
 

Nothing wrong with 3m ppe, they are the industry standard in a lot of areas for a reason. 
I haven't worked in paint supply for a couple years so I'll leave it to people who've used the exact product you'll be using for more tech tips. 
 

PS: Depending on the pot life of the paint and local laws the paint shop may be able and willing to mix up your paint in ready to spray form. The only draw back with this is once it's activated even in a sealed can it dramatically reduces the life of the product in the can. 

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
1/29/22 8:36 p.m.

In reply to 1SlowVW :

I'll probably search the web for paint deals, after all this is a challenge  budget limited deal. 
  I was hoping to get some actual experience  with various brands.  I know which brands to avoid with Lacquer ( Ditzler's is my go to brand) but I like them because of the depth of their shine.

    White? Depth? Ha!  Hence commercial quality will be fine.  Since it will be sitting in a temp controlled shop fading or chalking won't be an issue.  

SV reX
SV reX MegaDork
2/3/22 12:43 p.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

I sent you a PM. Look for my email. 

Chris_V
Chris_V UberDork
2/3/22 2:32 p.m.
frenchyd said:

In reply to Chris_V :

Chris; thank you,  You got a thumbs up from me.  You explained something that addressed my fears. 
  Reaction to the fumes.  Ease of application and ability to correct runs & mistakes.  
 Please continue with two other concerns.  Are those clear coated?  If so is the process the same regarding  PPE? 

Clear coat is merely paint with no pigment and most have an added UV blocker. In the same family you can often use the same reducer and hardener as the single stage stuff. In BC/CC systems, the base coat has a reactive reducer and the clear uses a hardener and reducer. The cars pictured did use clear coats (the MINI used two different House of Kolor clears, one thin one to suspend the pearl to make the Union Jack, and one thick clear to do the overall topcoat).

   Second a simple refrigerator white color. What would a gallon cost ( with thinners etc.). 
   I am going to listen to you since you did address my concerns.  

I'd suggest a single stage, from PPG, R&M or even a secondary brand, like Limco. I use them for budget paint jobs, and budget hardeners and reducers for other brands, as they still work. You should be able to get enough to paint your whole car with hardeners and reducers for ~$200 if you go that route. Like the Limco Supreme BRG gallon in the picture below:

I only used a half gallon of it to do an entire B-GT and it was easy to sand and polish (though it didn't need much). Add in another $100 for the pints you'd need to do the stripes you're talking about, using the same reducers and hardeners.

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
2/3/22 4:16 p.m.

In reply to Chris_V :

Urethane Enamel's aren't the old Enamels that we used to paint.  Those can't be sanded and buffed back like Lacquer.  
   But you convinced me to try Urethane  Enamels.  And I will.  
My test method is paint a big cardboard box.   I'll try a Harbor Freight HVLP gun. And if it's good then my old HVLP gun is going in the trash. 

  I'll keep my Snap - On and Devilbus guns  because nothing can match the depth of finish that Lacquer can.  But white? No depth to it, so all I have to do is spray smooth and let it dry shiny? 

  A couple more questions 
   How long does it take for Urethane Enamel  to dry enough to sand?   Because I'm not kidding, I am a sloppy painter. There will be runs.  
   The original paint was GM's Thermal  Acrylic? It is very uniform in nearly all of the car except where we cut holes in the roof to weld the top of the rollcage and one spot in the engine compartment where brake fluid leaked onto the paint.  Can I safely scuff the car ( fix those two area's ) and  spray a Urethane Enamel  over that Thermal Acrylic? 

        

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
2/5/22 3:12 p.m.

Undercoating removal. Done by Erick. 

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
2/5/22 3:14 p.m.

Jeff doing the rear wheel undercoating. 

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
2/5/22 3:17 p.m.

Update. The Challenge was discussed with Erick and Jeff.   They may be able to attend the Challenge  event in Florida.  I'll let them take  the Jaguar down and let's see how they do!   

NOT A TA
NOT A TA UltraDork
2/5/22 3:36 p.m.
frenchyd said:

Update. The Challenge was discussed with Erick and Jeff.   They may be able to attend the Challenge  event in Florida.  I'll let them take  the Jaguar down and let's see how they do!   

That would be cool!

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
2/5/22 4:41 p.m.

You can see what was achieved in a few hours. 
    The passenger side floors are free of chunks but will require a bit more wire brushing, and some solvent and steel wool to really be ready for paint.  
  We'll roll the body over on the other side to get the drivers side floors done.. 

The guys want me to weigh the undercoating to see how much weight we are saving. 
What's your thinking?  

jh36
jh36 Dork
2/5/22 5:33 p.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

18 lbs if it's like a 944. 

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
2/5/22 5:40 p.m.

In reply to jh36 :

Good guess,  maybe a little more because it's a bigger wider car.  But it's not gobbed  on either. 
  I want it to be 100 pounds or more because the car is so heavy to start with but I think you might be closer to the mark. 

Dusterbd13-michael
Dusterbd13-michael MegaDork
2/5/22 6:13 p.m.

We got 10 on the amc. And it was THICK. granted we torched a lot of it to get it to come off, so may not be an accurate weight. 

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
2/5/22 8:38 p.m.

In reply to Dusterbd13-michael :

I wanted to torch it off too, but the guys talked me into just scrapping it off. Turns out they were right. Came off easy enough and didn't stink up the place. 

NOT A TA
NOT A TA UltraDork
2/5/22 10:03 p.m.

A cheap air powered needle scaler gun would save you a lot of time and save knuckles.

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
2/6/22 2:06 a.m.

In reply to NOT A TA :

I actually had one but instead of a pleasant few hours making satisfying progress. It would have been one guy enduring a loud vibrating  din. While the rest of us would have stood by and watched?  I don't think it would have been much faster.   The undercoating wasn't on very securely. And as you can see there is zero rust which is the true fortes of a needle scaler.  Nobody mentioned scraping their knuckles I know I didn't. The car rotated like that it was pleasant work.  
 Instead we spent the time planning and cracking jokes. 
 But what's your guesstimate of total weight removed. ( don't forget to add a few pounds for dirt and leaked oil). 
   1st scraping 21 pounds. Not quite 1/2 of the car.    But front and rear fenders are coming off for my fiberglass flairs  so no sense in scraping them.  
Im putting a new trunk floor in  too so that won't need scraping either.  Just guessing here But I'm thinking it will be slightly over the 100 pounds if I include all of that. 

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
2/8/22 7:15 p.m.

Ok a few more hours of scraping. Just guessing based on the first 21 pounds I'm think over 30 pounds?   

dculberson
dculberson MegaDork
2/8/22 8:25 p.m.

Almost a 2hp gain so far

jh36
jh36 Dork
2/8/22 10:32 p.m.

In reply to frenchyd :

I am impressed that you were so close to the pin ...and sort of amazed at 100 lbs of goo!  It's a nice feeling to get that stuff off. Well played. 

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
2/9/22 8:27 a.m.

In reply to jh36 :

Thanks but that's only a guess. Since I won't scrape it off the fenders or trunk I'll never really know. 
To be completely honest I know how much paint it takes to completely paint a car that size and based my guess on that.
   The really sad thing is I'm going to pain it white in  tribute to Group 44. I expect to put 3/4 of that weight back on.   Sigh!   
 

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
2/9/22 9:06 p.m.

frenchyd
frenchyd UltimaDork
2/9/22 9:07 p.m.

Sorry Guys I had to put the fenders on 

frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
2/19/22 5:32 p.m.

This is the space for the megaphone.  It's where the resonators lived. I think it's perfect for a pair of megaphones. One on each side. 

frenchyd
frenchyd MegaDork
2/21/22 2:48 p.m.

Money update.  
  I was at $718. Minus the stuff I won't use for adapting the carbs to the EFI manifold. 
 Brings me to $640. 
plus $237 for turbos off EBay.

 Total at this time.   $877. 
Now,   Trying not to be a dick.  When I bought the copper flashing for my house  there was some other  copper & brass on the pallet including a 10 foot long sheet  of Brass. It was a pallet I paid $200 for and got among other stuff 48 sheets of copper 4'x8' but 18 gauge instead of  the normal 24 gauge used for flashing. 
     I saved all my copper and brass cut offs  and scraps and finished up right as prices for copper reached their peak. As China finished 3 gorges Dam.  That box of scrap  sold for more than I initially paid for the whole pallet. 
    So how do I figure out the value of my megaphones?  The value of storage space in the basement?  As a percentage of what I got for the scrap I sold back?( Except I didn't sell the sheet ) Let's say I use 1/3 of that sheet?  How do I figure it's cost?  
     It's not just going to be this sheet of brass but I have whole rolls of fiberglass  etc.  I've had for a very long time.    Projects I did decades ago where I'd buy 5-6 - more rolls of fiberglass  to make trailers and race car bodies etc.   it's impossible to remember which roll goes with which  project and what I paid.   
 Can I just look through my records and find prices. total them  divide by amount purchased and used for the fender flairs?  I've got gel coat and resin etc. maybe some is good and some isn't?  Can I use the same approach?  
      

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