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mitchfishman5
mitchfishman5 New Reader
12/7/20 6:28 p.m.

So today as I cruised YouTube I found myself watching a car review of a 1971 Cuda the reviewer stated the car was a 440 clone, not a real 440. Clones are something that until now I have heard almost nothing about so as I did some car shopping and stumbled across the magnitude of classic Porsche clones for a tenth of the cost of real vintage Porsches, in the $10k-$20k range. In particular fake 80's 911's based on '60s 912's. They seem to just slap a remanufactured 3.0 in it and a body kit and call it a day? I figured if anyone on the internet had some knowledge it would be GRM. Do these clones drive anything like the original? and a better question will they completely fall apart after one day on a back road? Being able to get behind the wheel of anything that even resembles driving an air-cooled 911 before winning the Powerball seems too good to be true....

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr PowerDork
12/7/20 6:43 p.m.

If it is like everything else, it depends on who built it and what quality parts and fabrication were involved.

 

P.s. I thought these cars were called outlaws in the Porsche world.

californiamilleghia
californiamilleghia SuperDork
12/7/20 6:44 p.m.

Porsche 912s  cost more than an 80s 911 .....

Yes that was done 20-30 years ago when Miami Vice was on TV , everyone wanted a wide body , slant nose 911 and the earlier cars were real cheap ( then) , so throw on fiberglass fenders and wide tires  and paint it RED....

Now the opposite is happening , people are buying 1980s 911 and backdating them to look like the earlier cars in RS style ,

Thats what Singer and many others are doing....

If you want a "Miami Vice" look 911 there are a lot of those around that might need a motor , but motors are not cheap !

So which style are you lusting over  ?

maj75 (Forum Supporter)
maj75 (Forum Supporter) HalfDork
12/7/20 6:49 p.m.

Depends on the quality of the work.  Some "clones" are better than the originals.  Porsche's didn't change very much structurally in the 70s and 80s.  With enough money and talent you could make a pretty exact replica of a 2.7RS.  It would still be outrageously expensive to duplicate, but way less than an original.  Muscle car clones can be done so that they can't be distinguished from the original unless you are an expert.  I always thought of the Cobra kit cars as the original replicas.  Quality there varies from an exact replica to a fiberglass body glued onto a BMW Z3.

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
12/7/20 6:57 p.m.

If you want a Porsche to drive, buy a old but low mileage Boxster while they're still cheap. They are the current "best buy". 

mitchfishman5
mitchfishman5 New Reader
12/7/20 7:21 p.m.

In reply to californiamilleghia :

I loveee the slantnose. I haven't looked into old Porsches at all, it was a complete chance that I ran into this particular one for under $10k. I always assumed all the old Porsche cars were way out of my price range. I think more hunting is going to be needed. I assume this one is probably a pretty poor example seeing that the listing only has a handful of pictures so I will have to see if the seller responds.  But now I have my eye open. 

mitchfishman5
mitchfishman5 New Reader
12/7/20 7:25 p.m.

In reply to John Welsh :

They are definitely a phenomenal deal. The only problem is that I am 7 feet tall so I don't get along very well with 2 seater convertibles. That being said I haven't sat in one yet so maybe with a custom seat it could be possible

paddygarcia
paddygarcia New Reader
12/7/20 7:38 p.m.

If you can get anything other than scammed from a $10k 911/912 listed on the internet, I salute you.

Lof8 - Andy
Lof8 - Andy SuperDork
12/7/20 7:48 p.m.
paddygarcia said:

If you can get anything other than scammed from a $10k 911/912 listed on the internet, I salute you.

I was going to say 10-20k won't buy you anything worth a damn in the aircooled 911 world.  

mitchfishman5
mitchfishman5 New Reader
12/7/20 7:57 p.m.
Lof8 - Andy said:
paddygarcia said:

If you can get anything other than scammed from a $10k 911/912 listed on the internet, I salute you.

I was going to say 10-20k won't buy you anything worth a damn in the aircooled 911 world.  

 

 

Ya, I'm starting to realize this....

https://www.cardealfinder.com/autos/porsche/1969-porsche-911-120767.html

Websites sketchy but if anyone interested....

dps214
dps214 HalfDork
12/7/20 8:18 p.m.
mitchfishman5 said:

In reply to John Welsh :

They are definitely a phenomenal deal. The only problem is that I am 7 feet tall so I don't get along very well with 2 seater convertibles. That being said I haven't sat in one yet so maybe with a custom seat it could be possible

I think it could work with an aftermarket/lowered seat. but the stock seating position is awful for a tall person. If you can splurge a little on a 987, the interior layout is much better. Also my experience has been that air cooled 911s are just as tall person un-friendly, maybe even moreso.

Also, somewhat counter-intuitive, but you want a medium-high mileage 986/987. Less time sitting = lower risk of IMS bearing issues...within reason, of course.

But to answer the actual question, clones are super common in the porsche world, values are kinda all over the place though, very much a "worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it" thing. And in all likelihood you're not going to get anything running for much less than $15k, and even that is going to be a sweet deal that needs some work. 2ish years ago a friend managed to get his hands on a late 70s 3.0 car, targa with non-stock widebody (steel, nicely grafted in, but not original equipment...needed about 3" of wheel spacers to look right) for $15k. It had been sitting for a while and either didn't run or barely ran, needed the entire fuel system replaced to run mostly right, plus some suspension and steering work, etc.

californiamilleghia
californiamilleghia SuperDork
12/7/20 8:37 p.m.
mitchfishman5 said:
Lof8 - Andy said:
paddygarcia said:

If you can get anything other than scammed from a $10k 911/912 listed on the internet, I salute you.

I was going to say 10-20k won't buy you anything worth a damn in the aircooled 911 world.  

 

 

Ya, I'm starting to realize this....

https://www.cardealfinder.com/autos/porsche/1969-porsche-911-120767.html

Websites sketchy but if anyone interested....

ummmm you might want to look here

https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1969-porsche-912-43/

mitchfishman5
mitchfishman5 New Reader
12/7/20 9:01 p.m.

In reply to californiamilleghia :

Well thats mildly awkward......

mitchfishman5
mitchfishman5 New Reader
12/7/20 9:04 p.m.

In reply to dps214 :

What would you consider medium-high mileage?  There seems to be a lot of cars in my area around the 100k mark for $5k-$10k. I have heard of the bearing issue somewhere, you have to completely pull the engine correct?

dps214
dps214 HalfDork
12/7/20 9:19 p.m.
mitchfishman5 said:

In reply to dps214 :

What would you consider medium-high mileage?  There seems to be a lot of cars in my area around the 100k mark for $5k-$10k. I have heard of the bearing issue somewhere, you have to completely pull the engine correct?

Yeah low 100k range is probably the sweet spot for a car on the original bearing. Pretty sure all 986 can be done just pulling the trans and clutch, some of the 987s you have to split the engine case to get to the bearing, so that's an engine out job.

Danny Shields (Forum Supporter)
Danny Shields (Forum Supporter) HalfDork
12/8/20 6:48 a.m.
dps214 said:
mitchfishman5 said:

In reply to dps214 :

What would you consider medium-high mileage?  There seems to be a lot of cars in my area around the 100k mark for $5k-$10k. I have heard of the bearing issue somewhere, you have to completely pull the engine correct?

Yeah low 100k range is probably the sweet spot for a car on the original bearing. Pretty sure all 986 can be done just pulling the trans and clutch, some of the 987s you have to split the engine case to get to the bearing, so that's an engine out job.

My friend with a Porsche repair shop told me he just got a new machining tool that allows him to remove the IMS bearing on a 987 (2005-2008) Boxster and replace it without opening up the engine. (Once again, necessity is the mother of invention!)

On all the early Boxsters, the IMS bearing is typically replaced along with the clutch and rear main seal, since you are already "in" for the labor to drop the transmission. 

it has been said many times before, but when someone is looking for a used Porsche, documentation of service and repairs is critical.

Oldboy Speedwell
Oldboy Speedwell New Reader
12/8/20 8:26 a.m.

What about a Yugo Integrale clone?

smiley

 

Could be fun!

 

 

BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter)
BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
12/8/20 8:27 a.m.
Lof8 - Andy said:
paddygarcia said:

If you can get anything other than scammed from a $10k 911/912 listed on the internet, I salute you.

I was going to say 10-20k won't buy you anything worth a damn in the aircooled 911 world.  

This is what roughly the top end of that price range bought you a couple of years ago at mate's rates, and they haven't got any cheaper since. Not to mention that this is the least desirable body style, too.

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
12/8/20 9:27 a.m.

Not really what you are talking about, but a guy at my local C&C has a full clone 356 (VW chassis glass body, Subaru motor, AC etc) that is VERY nice.  I am sure it's a much better "car" than a 356.  He said he had it build at a shop for around 30 grand.

AAZCD (Forum Supporter)
AAZCD (Forum Supporter) Dork
12/8/20 9:45 a.m.

I keep flagging this one listed under "Antiques" on Craigslist. The same car is apparently in many locations simultaneously.

(EDIT: I removed the links and posted a picture of them instead. I don't want to help them get more traffic.)

 

and more....   Yes it *IS* too good to be true.

californiamilleghia
californiamilleghia SuperDork
12/8/20 10:45 a.m.
mitchfishman5 said:

In reply to californiamilleghia :

Well thats mildly awkward......

For those that did not open my link , the car he was looking at was sold on bring a trailer for real money , and the CL scammer used those photos with the cheap price......

Not to say you cannot buy  good cheap cars on craigslist ,  but  have someone look at them before sending $$$$$

wearymicrobe
wearymicrobe PowerDork
12/8/20 11:52 a.m.

If your going to clone a Porsche just go old school and build a clone. I highely recommend it and its way more fun then a 912 with a modern body put on it and way cheaper to do. 

 

californiamilleghia
californiamilleghia SuperDork
12/8/20 12:25 p.m.

In reply to wearymicrobe :

I agree , your car looks a lot better that a  930 look fiberglass  slant nose fender , whale tail built on an earlier chassis,

And your 550 has a motor that can be repaired by most people , unlike a 911 motor.

Looks great too !

MotorsportsGordon
MotorsportsGordon HalfDork
12/8/20 1:17 p.m.

Here are your best options for Porsche clones

http://www.beckspeedster.com/

https://intermeccanica.com/athird.net/

ofcourse those might be too expensive even used but there are plenty out there that have been built on beetles etc.

BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter)
BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
12/8/20 3:43 p.m.
wearymicrobe said:

If your going to clone a Porsche just go old school and build a clone. I highely recommend it and its way more fun then a 912 with a modern body put on it and way cheaper to do.

Not to mention that these days, the conversions usually go the other way, from G-model and later to longhood, not from longhood to slantnosed widebody.

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