Misha_
Misha_ New Reader
3/10/21 11:38 p.m.
wae said:

While unloading the Excursion from the rollback at the shop this afternoon I got the call from Tom!  The crankshaft is ready to be picked up!

Exciting!!!!! Can't wait to hear how everything fits wae

wae
wae UberDork
3/16/21 2:48 p.m.

Ordinarily, I would be jumping in with both feet right now, but while we were waiting I doubled the size of my broken SUV collection.  So first, I need to get the front of the Excursion's motor back together.  Then I will commence cleaning the block and the heads and putting together the parts orders.

sirruckus
sirruckus New Reader
3/18/21 11:57 p.m.

In reply to wae :

I'm in the same boat as you - life happens, I've started a new job and taken a couple weeks break from the engine rebuild.  Just a response to your cam alignment input, that is what I followed as well - I've been using Alldata DIY which has most of what I need.  However there are some steps which are ambiguous, even the diagrams for this can show weird cut through views where you don't realize right away.  I'll attach a picture of the instructions I followed:

 

wae
wae UberDork
3/25/21 8:24 a.m.

Now that the Excursion is all buttoned up and back on the road, I actually got started on the rebuild process last night!

Don't get too excited, though...  It involved sweeping up the shop and putting tools away so I could roll the engine stand out of the corner.  I peeled back the plastic that's covering the block and started cleaning the block's oil pan mating surface.  But the important part is that the process has officially begun!

I want to get the block all cleaned up and make sure there isn't anything still clogging the oil passages.  It's an aluminum block, though, so I want to be sure that whatever I use is compatible.  I also don't really have a lot of big water options at the shop, so pressure washing it can't happen there.  I could always bring it home and do it in the driveway where I've got a hose and a drain.

Another fortuitous turn of events:  idparts.com is apparently discounting all their rebuild kits by 15% through the end of the month.

The new goal is to have the vehicle able to move under its own power before Thanksgiving of this year.

wae
wae UberDork
3/26/21 9:54 a.m.

Had some time before going to get my second shot this morning so I started cleaning things up.

wae
wae UberDork
3/27/21 8:54 a.m.

I'm working on my parts order and I've hit a bit of a snag in my thinking as it pertains to the wrist pins.

Obviously this engine had lubrication problems that were severe enough to thrash a rod bearing to itty bitty pieces.  New mains and big-end rod bearings are a given, but what about the wrist pins?  A fresh round of pistons will run me about $600 on top of the $Texas that I'm already needing to spend.  And if I'm replacing the pistons because of concern around little-end rod bearing damage, would I not also want to replace the rods for another $1,800?  And if I'm going to do THAT, does it make sense to go ahead and have it bored .5mm over for another $300 in additional piston cost plus whatever the machine shop would charge me?  And once I've done that....  See where this is heading?

 

So do you think that I need to be concerned about the wrist pins?  I'm assuming that I can disassemble the piston from the connecting rod to inspect the bore and pin and then reassemble, maybe I can just send those to the machinist to verify that they're not out-of-round?  Or do I just replace the #2 piston and rod since it was the one that had the destroyed bearing and the piston-to-exhaust-valve contact?  I know opinions are like as...armpits, but in this case I'm interested to hear everyone's!

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
3/27/21 9:14 a.m.

A.  I giggled at $Texas.  I'm pretty sure I've never seen anyone but me use that term.  The virus is spreading!

B.  If you can rock the pistons on the pins without effort, the wristpins are good.  If you can't, assuming that they are full floating, you can pop them apart, clean everything with solvent, and pop 'em back together.  Not saying it can't happen, but I've never seen wristpin issues caused by oiling.  They're splash lube, meaning as long as there's some sort of mist in the crankcase air, they'll be fine.

 

Hudson was a proponent of splash-lube engines for a long time.  No pressure feed at all.  Their argument was, if you have pressure feed and you have a bearing problem, ALL bearings have a problem.  If you have splash feed and one bearing has a problem, only one bearing gets hurt.

wae
wae UberDork
3/27/21 9:49 a.m.


Hehe!

That's a good point about how it's getting oiled, I hadn't thought about that.  The cam journals and bores were pretty clean too, it was really just the bottom end that was wiped.  Which I thought was kind of weird, but maybe German Engineering™ means that they do a better job of oiling the top end.

I'll give them all a little inspecting and go from there.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
3/27/21 9:52 a.m.

Curse you Trebek!

wae
wae UberDork
3/28/21 8:46 a.m.

Making more notes for myself:

Engine number is 41189870

Chassis number is A770190

Apparently these numbers matter when it comes to certain parts.  The Febi catalouge shows different serpentine belts based on the chassis number and the thermostat housing (and some others) are different based on the engine number.

wae
wae UberDork
3/29/21 10:24 a.m.

I just placed the order with idparts for the block rebuild kit with the .25 rod bearings and the .50 mains.  $605.11 after the 15%-off sale and taxes.

 

Budget tracking section:

Crankshaft repair:                    $  344.50
Block rebuild kit:                      $    605.11

 

Total so far:                                $   949.61

Greg Smith (Forum Supporter)
Greg Smith (Forum Supporter) Dork
3/29/21 12:01 p.m.
wae said:

"Bavarian Borking"

Dang. you just made my day :)

wae
wae UberDork
3/30/21 8:23 a.m.

On the subject of the cost of this whole adventure....  I just got some documents in the mail regarding a class action settlement for current and former owners of various Bluetec-equipped cars, including my GL350.  As a current owner I'm eligible to claim $3,590 if no one else makes a claim against my VIN or $2,692.50 if one of the former owners of my car decides to make a claim.  And, btw, if any of the previous owners of my truck is out there reading this, I will cut you.

Anyway.

The catch is that in order to claim the cash, you have to have the Approved Emissions Modification installed.  I have no idea what that modification entails and if that's even possible if I delete the EGR, swirl motor, and DPF.  My guess is that I'll need to have at least the DPF installed and functioning so this will come down to a numbers game that I think I will win based on this.  I'm guessing that without the things I was going to delete, I'm going to be at about $3,300 in parts and that's 100% out of pocket.  If I don't tune it, then I'm at about $3,950.  But, assuming I'm able to claim $2,692.50 my out-of-pocket will be $1,257.50.  If I still want to have it tuned, I could always sell off the DPF to pay for the tune and put a couple extra bucks in my pocket at the same time. 

The real kicker is needing to re-buy the DPF, of course.  I sold mine in a local deal for cash for about what I would have gotten after eBay and PayPal were done with me had I sold it at "market rates" there, so I've got to put a little bit of cash back in.  If I can get away with getting a different DPF and adapting it to fit, I might be able to save myself a bit, but I really need to know what I can and cannot get away with when it comes to this "AEM" - which apparently won't be available until 3Q2021.  I've got until October 1, 2022 to submit my claim, though, so there's some runway there.

wae
wae UberDork
4/5/21 6:39 a.m.

No work done, although I did cover up the block to keep it clean while I'm grinding and welding on patch panels for the Miata.  I have been consuming more information about the AEM, though, since that's a big driving in what/how I put this thing back together.  First of all, when it comes to the DPF that I don't have any more the FAQ from Mercedes says:

(7) What if Owner/Lessee vehicles have been previously modified using after-market parts and/or software? Can the Emission Modification still be performed?

If, prior to receiving the Emission Modification, the vehicle has been modified in a manner that  impedes the installation of the AEM or substantially affects the operation of the AEM after install (for example, removal of original emissions components not part of the AEM), Dealers might not be able to perform the Emission Modification until the prior modifications are corrected.  The Owners/Lessees would be responsible for such corrections.  Once corrected, the vehicle may receive the Emission Modification. 

So, if I just put a pipe in place of the DPF, it wouldn't impede the installation of the AEM.  A new DPF is part of the AEM so I just might be able to get away with that.  The thing won't drive real well with no DPF in place, of course, but I only really need to get it out of the shop and on to a flatbed when you think about it.

The other thing that is going to make a difference in what I do - or could, anyway - is that the AEM will come with a 48 month, 48,000 mile extended warranty.  What that covers, exactly, isn't known yet since the modification for my car isn't published, but some of the other ones cover the DOC, DPF, DEF injector and controller, DEF pump, a whole cohort of sensors, fuel injectors, EGR valve, turbo, the "intake manifold/charge air distributor" (whatever the hell that is), the cylinder head components (cams, valves, springs, keepers, seats, studs, and cam caps), the timing change, and the.... thermostat?

So suddenly does it make sense to put a new timing chain in?  I suppose it still makes sense to replace #2's exhaust valves since my guess is that if they shatter, MB would replace the valves but I'd be on the hook for the new block.  Is the "intake manifold/charge air distributor" a reference to the M55 swirl motor and its associated gunked up flaps?

That's also the information for the x166 chassis which is the generation after mine, so some or all of that may or may not apply - I'll have to wait and see once they've cooked up their plans for the x164. 

In the meantime, it won't hurt to continue moving forward with everything that I'm already working on, but if I'm going to study to the test, as it were, I'm in much less of a hurry since they won't have their fix ready until October.  And it's already convertible time so the Miata needs to get down off the lift and out onto the road.

sirruckus
sirruckus New Reader
4/9/21 12:16 a.m.

What concerned me most about my rebuild, is the thought about "do I really want to do this again".  I'm more of a go big or go home kind of person, and with such a finicky engine to begin with I thought cutting corners would just haunt me.

if your looking for an opinion from people:

1.) Wrist pin - have the machine shop check these, as the bushings wear out not so much the pins.  They can press in new bushings for you (special tapered style)

2.)Be aware that some of these bluetec's have 'nanoslide' which is a treatment done to the cylinder walls to reduce coefficient of friction (but also part of potential Problems that occur such as rings not setting / oil getting washed out by diesel).  Myself, I had it honed.

4.) Your in doing this motor, would be nice not to have to think about a timing chain for another 300,000km

5.) Best to get an oil pump too, you don't know what contaminants are throughout your engine.

6.) BE VERY CAREFUL NOT TO DAMAGE YOUR OIL SQUIRTERS - you cannot buy these!  Take care when removing your pistons

7.) you'll need the thrust washers

8.) are you going to rebuild the heads?

9.) Consider ID parts cylinder head repair kit

10.) At a minimum, you may want to replace the hydraulit lifters.  I understand the tolerance of these to be some of the tightest in the engine, fine particles can be deposited within them (so also contaminating your new engine if you re-use old ones) and could cause issues in the future.

 

 

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
4/9/21 1:34 a.m.

An R350 Bluetec came in today for a PPI, and my first thought was "wow, it's two GRM threads in one!"

wae
wae UberDork
4/9/21 7:17 a.m.

In reply to sirruckus :

This is definitely one of those opportunities to let "while I'm in there" run wild.  And at Mercedes prices, that's super dangerous! 

I'm fairly well sold on putting a new oil pump on, although I know that pumps aren't really a weak point the filter did have metal bits in it so it's not completely unlikely that the metal moved through the pump and could have caused a problem.  And that pump is not part of the new extended warranty.

For the timing chain, I'm can't think of a time that I've ever re-used a chain or a belt that had to come off anyway.  But....  if Mercedes will warranty my original timing chain, why not save myself a couple hundred?  When it stretches and starts clattering, I can drop it off at the dealer and let it be their problem to replace.  There is always the question of what other things it'll take with it on its way out, of course.  I'm still on the fence.

I was waffling on the heads a bit, but since the extended warranty will cover the heads, I'm inclined to clean everything up really well and replace the two exhaust valves with OEM parts.  I know it's a little sloppy, but if Merc is going to give me a warranty on my originals, why not let them?

The oil squirters are out of the block and cleaned up and look fine.

The block's a different story, of course.  No extended warranty on those parts, so cleaning all that up.  Got the block rebuild kit from idparts on order but it's actually the back-ordered thrust washers that I think are holding everything up right now.  New rings, hone the cylinders, and a check of the wrist pins to make sure alles in ordnung

From what I can tell, once I've got the damage from the destroyed bearing repaired and new oil seals in place, the weak points in der Scheßmotor will either be fixed or covered by Mercedes for 48k miles.  Not as good as knowing that the thing will be good for another 125k, but this thing seems like if the parts will last to 150k miles, they'll last forever.  It seems like the failures happen pretty early for the most part. 

wae
wae UberDork
4/9/21 7:19 a.m.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

You can let them know that they're likely to be able to get a check for $2,700 if the former owner doesn't submit a claim and "the fix" should be available in November of this year.  That fix will include a new DPF along with a 48k extended warranty that covers most of the trouble spots.

But really, they should run, not walk.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
4/9/21 10:01 a.m.

In reply to wae :

It's actually my new service manager's uncle who bought the car, so I'll pass it on.

Stevenmckinlay
Stevenmckinlay
4/13/21 3:01 p.m.

Oh man, just read this, recently purchased an eclass, recently done oil change following two years of no servicing. 

Which I think has affected other components, one being timing chain tensioner, possible clogging oil passage ways. 

Advised not to use flush. So did not. 

No boost, replacement core done following investigation, exhaust manifold inner lining broken off sucked into turbo. 

 

Been hearing tappet noise for few weeks now but not long after new oil engine has become very noisy. 

 

I have ordered new tensioner incase not holding pressure. 

 

I have seen slack chains wear casing and create hole for oil to escape. 

 

Imo this engine is powerful but in no way built to last. 

 

First diesel I have purchased with 150k miles, in past I would refuse such high mileage but everyone always said they are bullet proof. 

 

Used to be. Straight vs v6.......... Straight alday long. 

First and last new big diesel engine I will be buying. 

 

Once this is repaired I will drive until dead or I get fed up with it. 

 

Already spent hours and hours on rear suspension retrofit of coilovers, exhaust manifold replacement, turbo Core replacement, turbo inlet seals.... 

 

A shame really, I put alot of effort and gain nothing. 

 

I fear I will end up scraping the car. 

 

and I have no money for new vehicle. 

 

I am a competent mechanic, had many different makes, most have issues.

But this contraption!!! 

 

Plastic air intake design!

Lined exhaust manifolds!!

Pcv design!!! 

Position of swirl flap motor!!! 

 

Also the usual emissions parts that all diesels suffer as a consequence. 

 

So I have new tensioner coming tomorrow, along with new oil cooler seals. 

 

But I kinda in shock now as to what direction to take. 

 

I hope MY noise is not rod bearings or the like. 

 

Thankyou for your write up. It's a blessing. 

 

 

yupididit
yupididit PowerDork
4/13/21 6:55 p.m.

Om606 should be the last version of any Mercedes diesel. If it's newer than that then skip it lol. Personally I only accept om616, om617, and om606. 

wae
wae UberDork
4/13/21 8:37 p.m.

In reply to Stevenmckinlay :

First off, you might hold off and see when your AEM is available from Mercedes.  The timing chain is covered by the new extended warranty as are the heads/valvetrain, so it might be worth seeing if it's something that you can make them deal with.

It really is a flawed engine in so many ways.  I, too, thought that buying a diesel meant I was getting something that was super durable and extremely long-lived.  I sincerely hope that your noise isn't something that needs a tear-down, but these things have some pretty serious problems with getting coked up and clogging the lubrication to the rod bearings.

Welcome to the support group, and keep us posted with your progress!!

Misha_
Misha_ New Reader
6/16/21 6:06 p.m.

How is it coming wae?

Still waiting on the kit?

wae
wae UberDork
8/17/21 8:44 a.m.

Oy, I've been really busy not doing anything with this for a while now and I've managed to not do a whole lot of things!

I've had a whole bunch of other stuff get in the way of working on this, but I did finally get the parts for the block and I got started.  So far, I've gotten in and cleaned up the block, soaking the oil passages and cleaning up the oil jets.  The jets are re-installed in the block and since there's not specified torque spec that I could find, eastsideTim and I decided on about 90ish inch-pounds which should be in the 7-10 Nm range, give or take.

I was all ready to get the crank installed and all that, but decided to take a real close look at the block one last time.  Good thing I did because now that I can rotate the block and really get in to it, the #2 hole (heh heh) definitely has just the slightest bit of catch on the scratch that is in there from the right angle.  While I suppose the absolute right answer is to have the block over-bored and get 6 new pistons I don't see spending the $1,100 bucks for pistons (at least they come with rings...) and the hundred or so that the overbore job would cost at the machine shop.  Maybe the sleeve could be pressed out and repalced with a new one, but I haven't seen any sleeves on the market anywhere.  Before I even think about going down that road, I've got an appropriately-sized Flex Hone on the way so I can see if that's enough to take the literal edge off that scratch.  I wasn't planning to hone the other 5 since I've heard enough tales of woe about that over the years.

While I wait on the hone to show up, I've been given a cosplay prop project that needs work and I can also try to get the pistons cleaned up a bit.  I want to have enough progress on the prop project so that when the hone arrives, I can give that a shot real fast and see what I wind up with.  I figure that the worst that's going to happen is that I have a cylinder that needs to be re-sleeved or bored which, I guess, is kind of where I'm at now!

wae
wae UberDork
9/23/21 10:38 a.m.

It took a few weeks for the Flex Hone to show up and then another boatload of time for me to get around to having the hone, the block, some ATF, and myself all in the same place with enough time to give it a try.  After honing, there's no edge on it, but I can still feel the indentation of the scratch.  So I'm at a point where I don't really know what I want to do. 

I guess the right thing to do would be to either source another block or bore this one out and get new pistons and rings.  I assume that a scratch like that is going to make it burn oil and have slightly lower compression.  Tough call.

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