1 2 3 4
kevinatfms
kevinatfms Reader
2/17/21 11:16 a.m.
alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:
kevinatfms said:

Ford(rip off from owning Jaguar/Land Rover) AJ-30/35 3.9L DOHC V8? Find one out of a Thunderbird or Lincoln LS.

Considering who did all the work for that engine family, that was a Ford motor.  Just sayin.  (it was a 3.9, 4.0, and 4.2l motor)

The 3.0l from the LS was also reasonably light, but I expect something more modern would be lighter.  IIRC, when installed in a Miata, it was slightly lighter, even with the massive manual trans.

Pretty sure it was a Jaguar design and Ford funded the thing. The design predates the Ford merger(or buyout if you will) but they didnt have the capitol to build the things. In comes Ford's massive investment who then agrees to use the Jaguar AJ-V8 design over the Ford OHC engines.

IIRC, its was around 460lbs dressed? Doesnt seem overly heavy for a DOHC V8 with 250+hp.

alfadriver (Forum Supporter)
alfadriver (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
2/17/21 11:24 a.m.

In reply to kevinatfms :

No, it was after the buyout- I was working on that engine in '94 WRT the control system.  The engine was all developed in Dearborn, with the marketing restriction that Jag would get the 4.0l and the Lincoln the 3.9.  Aston Martin would later get a 4.2l version,  Perhaps you are thinking when Land Rover was brought into the fold....

That was when I learned how much I didn't like Jaguar and their engineers.  They were kids in a candy store- not knowing what the candy even did.  And it didn't help that they didn't believe our (as in the team I was part of) work only to come to the exact same conclusion a year later.  

It's possible that Jag started the idea, but they didn't have the resources to finish it.  Heck, we even did a brand new powertrain controller for that engine, and it was Ford's first electronic throttle engine.  It would not surprise me one iota that Jag would take credit for all of the work, though.  That's just who they are.

pres589 (djronnebaum)
pres589 (djronnebaum) PowerDork
2/17/21 11:33 a.m.

I think "the press" ran with the idea that Jag had developed the 4.0 and it was never really positively put to rest by Ford / PAG management.  I imagine the BBC's Top Gear probably played this up as they were always so on about "British ingenuity and engineering" and nobody really corrected the story.  When the Aston 4.2 came out I think I remember Jeremy Clarkson saying that it was Jag's 4.0, "bored out for use by Aston Martin".  

Has the group figured out what the definitive 3.0 liters or more street car engine is yet?  

A question I would be curious about, which is similar but not the same, is what street car engine is the lightest while producing at least 300 net horsepower.  

RossD
RossD MegaDork
2/17/21 11:58 a.m.

How much is the 2.7 ecoboost weigh? I know its less than 3.0 but isnt it lightweight?

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
2/17/21 11:58 a.m.

In reply to pres589 (djronnebaum) :

Woah woah, nobody said anything about street car.

pres589 (djronnebaum)
pres589 (djronnebaum) PowerDork
2/17/21 12:07 p.m.

In reply to Pete. (l33t FS) :

Right but *I did*.

The Toyota 1-3UZ come in at 390ish dressed. Heavy but start at 250hp and can go to about 425hp with minimal work. 

The AJ33S is about 450lb and are 400hp 400lb/ft. 

None of this helps.

alfadriver (Forum Supporter)
alfadriver (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
2/17/21 12:21 p.m.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:

In reply to pres589 (djronnebaum) :

Woah woah, nobody said anything about street car.

If it were that open, I would bet any one of the screaming V10's were really, really light- and there's no doubt they were super powerful.

alfadriver (Forum Supporter)
alfadriver (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
2/17/21 12:25 p.m.
pres589 (djronnebaum) said:

Has the group figured out what the definitive 3.0 liters or more street car engine is yet?  

A question I would be curious about, which is similar but not the same, is what street car engine is the lightest while producing at least 300 net horsepower.  

My gut tells me that it probably came out in the last decade.

Keeping the min power helps, BTW- NA, too?  

From the F family- NA would be the 3.7l V6 and the 5.0l V8; Boosted would be the 3.0lV6, the 3.5l V6 and the 5.0l V8.

Given it's actual track record, and it's installation in the GT and the Raptor, the 3.5l GTDI made some healthy power and was not overly overweight.

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
2/17/21 12:27 p.m.

I've always read the VQ35 was around 300lbs dressed.  I wonder how much can be done with simple parts bin swapping to reduce that number.

pres589 (djronnebaum)
pres589 (djronnebaum) PowerDork
2/17/21 12:33 p.m.

Right, Judd's offerings were already mentioned in this thread, and while you could probably have one tuned for street use I still don't think they really qualify for what anyone is looking for in this thread.

I wonder what GM's LV3, the 4.3 liter LT-based V6 weighs.  They're rated at 297 horse at the crank (which to me is close enough to be 300) and the block and heads are aluminum.  Not many "modern" V6en with pushrods left on the market and making this kind of power.

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
2/17/21 12:43 p.m.

I don't know about weight but Lincoln offers a 3.0tt in the Continental and MKZ.  In it's awd format it produces 400 hp (350 hp in fwd).  Again, not sure bout weight but 400hp offsets a lot of weight.  

Lincoln: 60 mph in just 4.8 seconds and quarter mile in 13.4 seconds. review

Infiniti also has a 400 hp 3.0tt in the Q50 4.5 seconds to hit 60 mph

 

nocones
nocones UberDork
2/17/21 12:58 p.m.
pres589 (djronnebaum) said:

 

Has the group figured out what the definitive 3.0 liters or more street car engine is yet?  

There appears to be no financial restriction so restricitons are just displacement and 4-stroke.  

Easy answer is the Cosworth 3.9L V-12 going into the Gordon Murray T-50.  178 KG (392 lbs)

If you want lighter, the Mclaren V6 going in the Artura is apparently 3.0L and 110lbs less then the V8.  The V8 weighs 439lbs so 330lbs for 577 hp.  

 

Those engines come with some kind of long term reliability for full road use implied as well in comparison to a heavily modified K24 or something like that.  

Run_Away [FS]
Run_Away [FS] Dork
2/17/21 1:06 p.m.

I don't have a weight for just the engine, but here's my own picture of a VQ35

 

 

 

 

Saron81
Saron81 HalfDork
2/17/21 1:07 p.m.

BMW M3 V8? 

kevinatfms
kevinatfms Reader
2/17/21 1:11 p.m.
alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to kevinatfms :

No, it was after the buyout- I was working on that engine in '94 WRT the control system.  The engine was all developed in Dearborn, with the marketing restriction that Jag would get the 4.0l and the Lincoln the 3.9.  Aston Martin would later get a 4.2l version,  Perhaps you are thinking when Land Rover was brought into the fold....

That was when I learned how much I didn't like Jaguar and their engineers.  They were kids in a candy store- not knowing what the candy even did.  And it didn't help that they didn't believe our (as in the team I was part of) work only to come to the exact same conclusion a year later.  

It's possible that Jag started the idea, but they didn't have the resources to finish it.  Heck, we even did a brand new powertrain controller for that engine, and it was Ford's first electronic throttle engine.  It would not surprise me one iota that Jag would take credit for all of the work, though.  That's just who they are.

Per a few articles it was 100% Jaguar designed including SAE and Ward's. Im not doubting Ford had to finish it knowing the quality of Jaguar powertrain from that time. Even the Ford press kit from the Thunderbird and LS stated its 3.9L was derived from a Jaguar V8.

And Jaguar definitely didnt have the money to finish the thing. They still use Ford to this day for nearly every engine built in the UK.
 

barefootskater (Shaun)
barefootskater (Shaun) UberDork
2/17/21 1:53 p.m.

The LS can be punched and stroked to nearly 500cid, and should be around 500#. Not a featherweight, but for the size and power potential, worth mentioning. 

alfadriver (Forum Supporter)
alfadriver (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
2/17/21 2:00 p.m.

In reply to kevinatfms :

All I'm saying is that we did the real work on the engine.  It may have been their idea, but the work was done in Dearborn.  I was a small part of it. 

And I came out of it with a very sour taste from Jaguar.

Stefan (Forum Supporter)
Stefan (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
2/17/21 2:21 p.m.

The Porsche 968 3.0 weighs around 400lbs and makes around 240bhp.  Add a bit more weight for the turbo version that makes between 300-350bhp, which isn't bad for late eighties/early nineties tech.

Snrub
Snrub Dork
2/17/21 2:32 p.m.

There's the Hartley H1 Maxi V8 which is based off bike engine design. Some of the bits are from a Hayabusa  They claim weight of 96kg / 211lbs. They have 2.5, 3.3, 3.6l varieties. Power is 420-520hp.

Robbie (Forum Supporter)
Robbie (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
2/17/21 2:40 p.m.

In reply to Run_Away [FS] :

thank the lord for someone with real data!

Engine weights on the internet is almost worse than politics.

alfadriver (Forum Supporter)
alfadriver (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
2/17/21 2:48 p.m.

In reply to kevinatfms :

Thinking about that motor some more, not sure of the lineage anymore- but Aston Martin has a turbo 4.0l that makes 500hp in the Vantage now....  And I wonder if that's the base of the racing motor in their GT4 race car that recently won at Daytona.

STM317
STM317 UberDork
2/17/21 5:25 p.m.

In reply to alfadriver (Forum Supporter) :

AMG supplies engines to Aston these days.

alfadriver (Forum Supporter)
alfadriver (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
2/17/21 5:47 p.m.
STM317 said:

In reply to alfadriver (Forum Supporter) :

AMG supplies engines to Aston these days.

Given the results, it's a good engine.  And probably light.

ProDarwin
ProDarwin MegaDork
2/17/21 5:48 p.m.
Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Run_Away [FS] :

thank the lord for someone with real data!

Engine weights on the internet is almost worse than politics.

Honestly I think his post highlights the main issue with engine weights on the internet.  They are never weighed in equivalent states.

There needs to be an Internet Standard Engine Measurement Protocol to standardize these things!

1 2 3 4
Our Preferred Partners
ywnvjKeYvsH2eYGBB8GJI0Vo9o1yqiR5eD86uVDBYHnT5Gau3fcsMX2T4eoQlbYX