LM using too much truck for the job (Duramax)

I've towed my karts and hauled shop equipment around in various little cars forever - the Worcester crew remember the Foley Engines CRX service truck, Unevolved and the other Aggies remember the only half-ton Corvette in College Station, and everyone at East Lansing knows how much stuff can fit onto a 8'x5' open trailer.

Three new factors are pointing me a different way. Tesla still hasn't released the trailer hitch for my Model 3, and racing hauler duty isn't exactly clean or easy on a new and shiny car. My old roommate, who owns the trailer, is getting married and doesn't want to help me with the logistics of racing anymore. This doesn't look like a good year in the oil field, so trucks in Texas and Oklahoma will be available cheaply.

The sensible solution is to get a Colorado or Odyssey. The cooler-than-I-am solution is to get an El Camino. Our trip home from Lincoln in 2013 showed me how a Silverado 2500 Duramax treated a 5000#, 25-foot-long enclosed trailer like a sack of feathers, and entertained the whole crew with its sideways antics on dirt and pavement.

It'll probably tow the same trailer, maybe with a few more sheets of plywood to keep both karts dry and some bigger tires to handle a heavier load. Most of its work will be on freeways with the occasional dirt road. Would the maintenance requirements and common reliability problems put me in the poorhouse? Should I just get a 1500 with a 5.3, a less restrictive exhaust, and a load-leveler?

In reply to chaparral :

I pulled a Tandem axle enclosed trailer all over the country using my S10 Blazer. First with the 2.8 V6 one and then with the 4.3V6.  One. 
In the trailer was my Black Jack Special. A Jaguar powered racer probably weighed 2300 pounds with the gas tank filled (55 gal)  spares and tools easily added another 1000+ pounds.  Yeh, going across the Rockies I'd slow dow to about the speed the semi's were at.  On the freeways in the Midwest I'd pretty much keep up with traffic.  Pass some. Be passed by others. 
Power is the same the world over. Some's  good, more is better, and too much is just getting fun.  
But reality is  you race carts because that's what you can afford.  You don't need a big ego truck.   stay efficient. Keep your money in the bank. Keep it affordable. 

If you want a diesel, go for it and you probably won't be disappointed. But if you're looking for a logical justification of it there really isn't one unless you're towing some seriously heavy stuff. Especially now that gas is basically free and a gas truck that gets 2/3 of the fuel mileage is cheaper to run most of the time.

The worst thing about using a Duramax for light work is that you have to listen to the damn thing all the time. My .02.

I went through this argument with myself on the slightly earlier (GMT800) generation trucks and ended up with an 8.1/allison drivetrain instead.  So far, no complaints- makes awesome huge v8 grumbly noises, tows incredibly nicely, and cost less than half of what a comparable Duramax truck would have.

As the longtime owner of a Chevy 1-ton Duallie, I can tell you that there is no such thing as "too much truck for the job." 

I have a 22 foot enclosed trailer with a BMW E 30 in it with a 5.3, and it did know that it was back there.  Same trailer with my Duramax, and it didn't even know it was back there. I've bought an older Yukon Denali with a 6.0 and it seems like the perfect in between.  It's got a little more power than the 5.3, but gas is still much cheaper than Diesel, so even if I am getting worse gas mileage towing with it, it's much cheaper.  You might want to look at a 2500 with the 6.0, for what you're towing, that should do everything you need and then some.  Good luck!

I would be looking for a GM truck with the 6.0 not the 5.3. Does not seem like much but the 6.0 has noticeably more torque. Millage will not be different between the two. The big thing is the 6.0 never had the lifter issues as it never came with them that I know of. 

My old boss towed my commercial walkbehind mower behind his GMT800 duramax dually and it was great. Like nothing back there even on a steel deck single car trailer. And we were passing people in a 55 zone. I'd rather have a little extra truck than come up a little short. Hell, plenty of people(at least where I live) daily drive 3/4 and 1 ton diesels all the time.

But have you driven a GMT900 1/2 ton? I moved a Volvo 980 from MD to SC with one on a 24' trailer and it was great. Plenty of truck, even for the hills of western VA and netted decent fuel economy(I forget numbers) the whole way. Plus the seats were comfy and it was a very quiet.

I've spent 5 years working as a parts tech (the last 2 in a fleet) here in Alberta, where everyone seems to think a diesel 3/4 is absolutely needed to get a bag of groceries.  

I wouldn't touch one unless i was towing really heavy loads in a businesses application.

The maintenance costs are horrendous.  General maintenance is expensive.  When they break, and yes, they do break, it can very quickly escalate to being not worth fixing. 

I haven't done much towing in my lifetime but everytime I did it, on paper, I didn't have enough truck. 
I pulled an E36 on a uhaul trailer in a ram 1500. Later an enclosed trailer with a formula car and spares in the truck (with 4 guys) and trailer. That was a F150 and that was halfway across the country. 
Power is a luxury. If you can get up the hill you have enough. The question is drivetrain durability and brakes. Both can be planned for but I think it's a matter of preference what you're willing to deal with. 

In reply to Sidewayze :

If I get a GMT800, do you recommend the 6.0 or the 5.3?

What are the really hideous failures on the earlier Duramaxes? I've heard that injectors are an expensive and not particularly easy job.

Take every bit of negative advice about a diesel and throw it out the window.  The whole "they don't like to sit" or "they don't start in the cold" is advice from 1975 and it is completely untrue these days.

A diesel represents an awesome investment if you get the right one.  Buy a gas truck for $4000 and you can sell it 5 years from now for $500.  Buy a diesel for $8000, and chances are you can sell it in 5 years for $9000.  Yes, you'll have to do a fuel filter more frequently, but they are $10 and they're right there in the engine bay.  Oil changes usually require more oil, but these days they are no more frequent than a gas truck.  More than worth it for the reliability, long life, resale value, and double the torque.  The 50% better fuel mileage isn't a bad thing either.

LBZ/LLY is the duramax you should look for.  They are the 06/07.  You can go newer and enjoy more refinement and power at the expense of MPG.  Starting with the LMM in 08, they got the DPF and MPGs went from (not kidding) 22 to 13.  Having said that, the later 6-speed Allison is a REALLY nice box with better flappy-paddle (well, pushbutton) shifting that actually works.  The 5-speed Allison is still great, but it is a bit of a blunt-force, old-school transmission.  A wonderful box, but if you're really going to tow with it, the upgrades to the controls of the 6-speed are really nice.

Dad owns two Duramaxes; an 04 LB7/Allison 5, and an 08 LMM/Allison 6.  The LMM gets used about once a week and even though it is 13 years old, it only has 35k on it.  It is a sexy dually crew cab with all the bells and whistles.  The LB7 is a crew/short 2500, and is abused daily.  It is the farm truck, it has 180k on it of hard, heavy towing and off-roading up to 13k lbs, it has been modified with 30-over injectors, 5-position chip, intake, exhaust, lift pump, and EGT gauge.  It puts 938 lb-ft to the wheels.  Both are bulletproof, start just as easily in the summer or in 25-below winter, and even the owner's manual says to change the oil every 7500-8000 miles.  They take 12 quarts IIRC.

I have owned two Dmax, three powerstroke, and one Cummins.  They are all great with some caveats.

Dmax:  Early LB7 is fantastic, but they had injector issues.  99% of them have been replaced and no longer an issue.  Single-geometry turbo that is very well matched, and will likely give you 500k of trouble-free use.  Since these are early 2000s, most are getting really long in the tooth.

LBZ/LLY solved the injector issues and added a VVT Garret turbo.  My favorite.

LMM/LML added the 6-speed Allison and also added the DPF.  Super-refined, great to drive, if you can tolerate the reduced MPGs

7.3L Stroke:  One of the most reliable pieces of iron out there.  Most are really long in the tooth and good luck finding one for non-crack-smoking prices.  I've owned two, one of which went 260k miles only having to replace the glow plug relay twice for $36 each time.

6.0L stroke: If they have been "bulletproofed" they are surprisingly awesome.  The 6.0L block is the go-to for performance builds after you've solved the EGR and oil cooler failures.  Because of these failures, they tend to keep the resale a little lower.

6.4L stroke: great, but a bit of a forgotten, middle child.

6.7L stroke: Yummy, but expensive.

Cummins VE:  Early 5.9 with a VE rotary pump.  We're talking 80s stuff here.  Bulletproof, but slow

Cummins P-pump: through mid 90s.  Best one in my opinion.  P7100 pump was easy to modify for power, but things were so bulletproof because they had no electronics.

Cummins 24v: late 90s until the 6.7L came out.  Great engines as long as you put a good lift pump in them.  The factory fuel pump failed somewhat commonly which starved the injection pump and killed it.  At $1400 to replace it, a $300 aftermarket lift pump is solid prevention.

My dream truck is an OBS Ford F250 (pre-98) with a Cummins P and an Allison 1000.  Those are the best pieces IMO.  For my applications, Ford did the best frame/axle/body, Cummins had the best engine, and the Allison is the best trans.  What I usually end up with is a Chevy diesel, mostly because the Dmax is 95% as good an engine, and the truck is 90% as good as the Ford, and it gets me the Allison without custom hacks and big money.

Sidewayze said:

I've spent 5 years working as a parts tech (the last 2 in a fleet) here in Alberta, where everyone seems to think a diesel 3/4 is absolutely needed to get a bag of groceries.  

I wouldn't touch one unless i was towing really heavy loads in a businesses application.

The maintenance costs are horrendous.  General maintenance is expensive.  When they break, and yes, they do break, it can very quickly escalate to being not worth fixing. 

 

I strongly disagree.  The correct choice will break almost never, and maintain 80% of its resale value for 500k miles.  Maintenance costs are negligible.  Yes, a little more for an oil change than a gas truck, but anyone who has had to buy 8 coils for a C.O.P. Ford or buy spider injectors for an LS Chevy would disagree with you.  Most gas trucks are considered dead at 200k and you can buy them for $1000.  Diesel trucks hold their value... partly because (like you say) some areas think you need one to get a bag of groceries, but also because they often last more than twice as long with half of the repair issues.

If you buy a stock 6.4L powerstroke, shame on you.  You'll be taking the cab off the frame for head gaskets, and tearing apart the entire top end of the engine for $2000 worth of EGR and oil cooler parts.  On the other hand, if you buy a Cummins P, at 400k you can do a head gasket and rings and bearings in your driveway in a day for $200 in parts and get another 250k out of it.... and then sell it for a price that would equal a small 401k and retire in Costa Rica.

chaparral said:

In reply to Sidewayze :

If I get a GMT800, do you recommend the 6.0 or the 5.3?

What are the really hideous failures on the earlier Duramaxes? I've heard that injectors are an expensive and not particularly easy job.

5.3 is in the half ton, 6.0 is in the 3/4 ton.  The injector problem is (as Curtis says) the LB7 only, which are the 2000-2003ish trucks.  Later designs both fixed the injectors so they don't fail early and also changed the design so that you aren't staring at 8+ hours of labor just to get to them.  The LB7s also tended to lose their FICMs and glow plugs but those were a lot less expensive to fix.

1988RedT2 said:

there is no such thing as "too much truck for the job." 

Well said, agree 100%. 
 

i  am on my 3rd tacoma since 2000. Not a day goes by that I don't salivate over the dually Rams or 350/450 s on the road. They are gorgeous 

I need a new truck next May. Wish the v6TT tundra would be out, but it won't.
 

So will be another new tacoma for me 

but my envy of raptors and duallys won't die 

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

As someone who owned and has driven many modern and old diesels. I still don't like them and I would not daily drive one, especially an old one. The fuel stinks. The fuel pumps are frequently nasty. The older engines are noisy, smelly, rattle traps. Modern diesels are not as fuel efficient as modern gas engines when it comes to commuting to work and back. Unless you are willing to remove all the EPA particulate filters, they frequently get worse fuel economy than gas engines while burning more expensive fuels and costing higher maintenance. A cousin just put $11000 worth of fuel pump and injectors into his Duramax at 115k miles. If it was a gas truck he could have replaced the engine, transmission and rear axle for that money. I don't know of a fleet in town that hasn't made the switch to gas trucks due to maintenance costs. Even Ford is reintroducing a big block gas engine for their medium duty trucks because of lower maintenance costs associated with gas engines.

While they are often the correct tool for the job, infrequent towing of loads under 5000 pounds and driving to work, is not that job. Unless commercially towing or towing most weekends, I won't own another one. Give me a gas truck any day. Easier to live with, drive better, smoother, quieter, smell better, and will still tow 5000-7000 pounds with the cruise control set and the A/C running full blast. 

And as someone who has owned a F350 crew cab dually, there is such a thing as too much truck. While huge truck are nice to have on occasion, they suck to live with on a daily basis unless you need the capacity. If you thought parking spots were small before, just wait until you have to park something that size at the grocery or hardware store. My half ton is a pain to park at most of them.

As to the 6.0 VS the 5.3 GM engines, I'd probably go with the 5.3 for the fuel economy. My 6.0 Silverado is 3-4 mpg behind my 5.3 Suburban in most situations. While the HP and torque are nice for heavy loads, in most situations it just makes the traction control kick in more often. 

6.0 gas 2500 GM truck will probably be adequately overkill. 5.3/6L80 1500s are plenty capable but you do have to roll the dice on the cylinder deactivation. Some people say it's a death sentence, other people have super high mile trucks with no issues. Your mileage may vary. 

Modern diesels are super overkill for most people,  but the cost of entry is higher and if something does go wrong it will definitely be more expensive. Diesel fuel is also usually more expensive. 

If you want the diesel just because you want the diesel, that's perfectly understandable and an acceptable decision in my eyes. 

Daylan C (Forum Supporter) said:

Modern diesels are super overkill for most people,  but the cost of entry is higher and if something does go wrong it will definitely be more expensive. Diesel fuel is also usually more expensive. 

 

Agree that the fuel is cheaper, but most diesels pre-DPF more than make up for that in MPG.  My Duramax at 22 mpg is cheaper to operate than my V6 gas truck at 16 mpg... and has 2.5 times as much torque and four times the resale value.

Most diesels ARE overkill, which is one of the reasons I like them. When I compare the bearings and brakes on a half ton vs a 3/4, I kinda drool a little.  With the more modern crop of 1/2 ton trucks being rated to tow more than a 1-ton from the 80s, plus the onset of smaller turbo gas and V6 diesel engines being offered in the 1/2 ton trucks, the need for a 3/4 ton diesel is becoming blurred fast.  For cripes sake, a newer F150 is rated to tow 13,500, and dad's dually Dmax is rated for something crazy like 32,000.  Compare that with my 95 F250 7.3L stroke which was rated for 10k.

Toyman01 (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

As someone who owned and has driven many modern and old diesels. I still don't like them and I would not daily drive one, especially a old one. The fuel stinks. The fuel pumps are frequently nasty. The older engines are noisy, smelly, rattle traps. Modern diesels are not as fuel efficient as modern gas engines when it comes to commuting to work and back. Unless you are willing to remove all the EPA particulate filters, they frequently get worse fuel economy than gas engines while burning more expensive fuels and costing higher maintenance. A cousin just put $11000 worth of fuel pump and injectors into his Duramax at 115k miles. If it was a gas truck he could have replaced the engine, transmission and rear axle for that money. I don't know of a fleet in town that hasn't made the switch to gas trucks due to maintenance costs. Even Ford is reintroducing a big block gas engine for their medium duty trucks because of lower maintenance costs associated with gas engines.

While they are often the correct tool for the job, infrequent towing of loads under 5000 pounds and driving to work, is not that job. Unless commercially towing or towing most weekends, I won't own another one. Give me a gas truck any day. Easier to live with, drive better, smoother, quieter, smell better, and will still tow 5000-7000 pounds with the cruise control set and the A/C running full blast. 

And as someone who has owned a F350 crew cab dually, there is such a thing as too much truck. While huge truck are nice to have on occasion, they suck to live with on a daily basis unless you need the capacity. If you thought parking spots were small before, just wait until you have to park something that size at the grocery or hardware store. My half ton is a pain to park at most of them.

As to the 6.0 VS the 5.3 GM engines, I'd probably go with the 5.3 for the fuel economy. My 6.0 Silverado is 3-4 mpg behind my 5.3 Suburban in most situations. While the HP and torque are nice for heavy loads, in most situations it just makes the traction control kick in more often. 

Agree with the old diesels.  Rattly, noisy, and not really a viable option by today's standards.

I will also agree that (unless you really need it) too much truck is a pain.  Parking a dually crew cab is like operating an aircraft carrier.

The big complaint that most 6.0L owners gripe about is MPG.  They are a solid jump up from the 5.3 in power and torque, but a disproportionate drop in MPG.  If I were buying a gas truck in this range, I'd likely get the 5.3L and just deal with the additional shifting and more throttle on the hills.

But in all honesty, the only reason I have a gas truck right now as a DD is that I couldn't afford the buy-in.  I needed a truck and I had $4000 to spend.  $4k doesn't buy much of anything with a diesel.  I was cross-shopping gas half ton and diesel 3/4 hoping to find an LBZ/LLY, but the gas truck I got for $4k had 80k miles on it, while all the diesels in that price range were beat and had 300k.

When it comes to the smell of diesel, I'm kinda like a diary farmer.  What might be a terrible smell to you smells like torque, resale value, and MPG to me.  I'm also a big fan of the fact that diesel is a far safer fuel to be carrying 30 gallons of in big plastic balloon.

chaparral.... you kinda can't go wrong with either.  For your needs, you could do a 4-cylinder Colorado, or a P71 for that matter.  If you decide on a diesel, just shop carefully and you'll do well... both in reliability and resale value

Here is a list of trucks/SUV's that I have personally owned and towed with.

1990 Chevy c1500 5.7
1996 GMC Yukon 5.7/4L60
2000 Dodge Ram 3500 5.9/NV4500
1999 Chevy Tahoe 5.7/4L60
1998 GMC Suburban 5.7/4L60
1998 Chevy Suburban 3/4 ton 454/4L80
2002 Chevy Suburban 3/4 ton 8.1/4L85
2016 GMC 3500 6.0/6L80
2016 Ford F250 6.7/6R140
2004 Dodge Ram 3500 5.9/NV5600 (current tow rig)

Personally, I prefer 3/4 ton gas trucks. Buy in price is much lower than the equivalent diesel version. Towing capability is more than adequate for my use since I don't tow more than 10k pounds or so, usually closer to 5-6K pounds. With the 3/4 ton you get better brakes, suspension, transmission, towing capacity, cooling system, etc. when compared to a 1/2 ton. 

Every diesel from every manufacturer has flaws, none are "better" than another. I bought my current 04 Dodge with a connecting rod hanging out of the #6 cylinder and it's not an "uncommon" issue if you look around. Although I would avoid a 6.4 Ford at all costs, unless you just want a nice roller to swap a Cummins engine into. Some trucks are known for weak transmissions (Dodge automatics), some need some upgrades to be reliable (Ford 6.0 bulletproof). 

The junkyard Cummins engine I put in my Dodge was $2500 and it was the cheapest I could find within about a 8 hour drive. It has over 200k miles on it. For $2500 you could have a completely rebuilt gas engine for any of the 3/4 ton trucks.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

Daylan C (Forum Supporter) said:

Modern diesels are super overkill for most people,  but the cost of entry is higher and if something does go wrong it will definitely be more expensive. Diesel fuel is also usually more expensive. 

 

Agree that the fuel is cheaper, but most diesels pre-DPF more than make up for that in MPG.  My Duramax at 22 mpg is cheaper to operate than my V6 gas truck at 16 mpg... and has 2.5 times as much torque and four times the resale value.

Most diesels ARE overkill, which is one of the reasons I like them. When I compare the bearings and brakes on a half ton vs a 3/4, I kinda drool a little.  With the more modern crop of 1/2 ton trucks being rated to tow more than a 1-ton from the 80s, plus the onset of smaller turbo gas and V6 diesel engines being offered in the 1/2 ton trucks, the need for a 3/4 ton diesel is becoming blurred fast.  For cripes sake, a newer F150 is rated to tow 13,500, and dad's dually Dmax is rated for something crazy like 32,000.  Compare that with my 95 F250 7.3L stroke which was rated for 10k.

I will note that my '89 Cummins D350 with horrible gearing with no overdrive got 17mpg. Same truck with a 360 probably would have struggled to get double digits. And overkill isn't a bad thing. If anything overkill means you have to work less to drive it and the equipment sees less wear. I like overkill if you need to tow often. 

'16 Canyon SLT CCSB 4X4 Duramax bought new. Haven't towed yet but this is rated 7600 lbs. Guys on the forums are towing boats, travel and utility trailers, give them a look, some are rather impressive. Coloradofans.com, plus there are several FB groups for the 2.8 Dmax. Lotta tune and deletes there also if that's your bag. 

Zero problems w/ my truck. Emission and trans reflash done by dealer. No tune but Pedal Commander gets rid of the dead spot in the throttle. Also added Hellwig rear sway bar.

Solid 30 mpg on old hilly SWPA 55 mph four lanes, expect more on flatter interstates. 25 mpg on my current hilly 45 mph two lane commute. 

Not tempted to go back to FS trucks.

Take a look at the gmt900 trucks with the 6 speed auto trans. The extra gears results in a much much better towing experience. Preferably with the 6.0

I had two 2000+ Ford 7.3. The 6 speed trucks tow much better than even the 7.3 especially with the torque of the 6.0. Plus you don’t have to deal with the diesel stench. I considered the duramax but they aren’t worth the buy in price or risk of repair. Same with the Fords.