Looks like they are having fun at the Rallycross National Championship

this vid from FB https://www.facebook.com/SCCARallyX/videos/671790609994740/

That appears to be a slow time and not in slow motion either. 

Off the racing line a bit.

only 1 cone was harmed there.

The first two heats of the day had dry runs, then the clouds opened up. 

The VW after one run:

Wow. I would describe those weather conditions as "sub-optimal" 

Rallycross in mud isn't fun. It seems like it would be, but you want to go fast and just can't. 

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

I could see myself loudly yelling at my car trying to will it into moving forward at an acceptable pace while the tires make a futile effort at something resembling traction. And that's before I slide roughly a mile wide at the first corner.

In reply to Daylan C :

TURN DAMN YOU!

Meh, national events in P/M classes seem to be half about the drivers and half who brought 27 sets of tires to fit any condition anyhow. Inclement weather is the best way to see who won the tire and money wars.  

It's one of the reasons that many of the fast drivers don't bother going to nationals, because they don't want to spend $5k on a bunch of different tires and haul them halfway across the country. When Vaughn came to one of our local events a month or two ago, his trailer was loaded with all kinds of crazy tires from Eastern Europe, some with huge mud blocks, various grass patterns, etc. He probably had more money in tires than I had in my whole car (which is a stage rally car, no less). I guess Brienne had even better tires today lol. 

I kind of wish there was a modified class where only certain types of tires were allowed (say, standard gravels) so it didn't turn into a battle of who has more expendable income.  Meh, whatever. 

In reply to irish44j :

Thats the world of Dirt Racing for you.

In reply to irish44j :

It's also amazing how many people can't drive when it's slippery.

I don't think I'm a phenomenal driver, and I certainly never have awesome tires, but the only times I have done extremely well at Nationals were when the conditions really sucked.  That time I was on the podium in SA, I think I was actually leading PF for a run or two, etc.  Either people are too timid to push when conditions are crap, or people push too hard and throw time away, I don't know.  It's hard to spectate your own run group.

Then it would dry out, and everyone else would dig their balls out of their purses, and I'd slide back down into mediocrity

I do remember the one year I had my S40 at the Great Lakes challenge, I was on UHP tires, and the water truck came around, and everyone was all freaking out about how slippery it was.  I just looked to where the grip was, and made that my line, and Detroit region still hasn't mailed me my trophy.

In reply to irish44j :

It's certainly one of the things keeping me out of mod class. At least when I spend $1500 on a set of autocross tires they're giant and work in 75% of conditions, not 205/15 tires that are useful 10% of the time and completely useless the rest of the time. On the other hand, mod class people with the right tires were the only people having anything reassembling fun in the conditions they had out there today 

I think Brianne only brought one set of tires. I've been following her posts, her trailer is TINY and the miata barely fit on it and the tow vehicle didn't appear loaded up with tires. 

The guy who led MR all morning (a GRM member I believe) is from Colorado, driving his V6 swapped MR2. He borrowed a set of muds this morning for the rears when it rained. He still ran his regular rally tires on the front. In my limited experience, most people show up with surprisingly little. 

The mud mud tires did make a day and night difference over the snows we run in stock today. You could definitely see the difference in dot, gravel and muds today. 

I see Leon in the 914 as the leader in MR. But i see 2 DNS's 

So will he retain the lead? Or will he bump to the back once/if timing is corrected?

I know rallyx is cumulative, but not much else beyond that. 

You need ice racing for practice.

In reply to spacecadet :

That's just a weird software issue. Brianne should be the winner. 

Just got word from Miles that he has influenced Mazda to reinstate contengency.

Definite learning experience for me.  I have never driven in mud like that.  It took a couple runs to figure out how to not get stuck on course.  Paddock was scary too.  Spinning tires up a hill through grid with expensive cars on either side was not good.

The one semi dry run that I got was awesome.  https://youtu.be/LlimxUZOyNc

I won't be back without a set of Indy sport BRs.  They were 30 seconds faster per run in mud than the SGs or cut gravel tires.  Now I just need to figure out how to justify $1k in tires for up to one event per year.

In reply to ojannen :

There are better tires than BRs...

chada75 said:

In reply to irish44j :

Thats the world of Dirt Racing for you.

tell me more, please ;)

ironically, most US stage rally teams don't carry all those crazy tires (exept maybe a few of teh really big ballers). Even most of the fastest teams usually just run standard rally gravels regardless of weather and conditions (unless they've scored up some NOS AO34s or something). I think the STPR Open 2WD national champions (Hooper, in the Lexus) carry maybe two full sets of tires to any event (at least that's what I seen on their trailer), and they're all the same lol. Most of those crazy rallycross tires being used at nationals wouldn't make it through one stage, since they're mostly retreats or grasstrack tires (not actually rally tires). 

My point was that tire wars are what ruined autocross to some degree, and now they're starting to do the same for rallycross - where if you have a ton of money, you can buy the right tire for any condition or surface. When I started rallycrossing 8-9 years ago, even at national events most people were just on worn-out regular gravel tires or grooved snow tires, and when it was muddy, we all slipped around the same :) 

Such is life though, I guess it's a tradeoff between equalizing things and ending up with 72 million 2-car classes like autocross these days lol. 

dps214 said:

In reply to irish44j :

It's certainly one of the things keeping me out of mod class. At least when I spend $1500 on a set of autocross tires they're giant and work in 75% of conditions, not 205/15 tires that are useful 10% of the time and completely useless the rest of the time. On the other hand, mod class people with the right tires were the only people having anything reassembling fun in the conditions they had out there today 

Yeah, that's what i've heard. Friends have gone in the past and reported having 20-second leads "and then the rain came and some other guy had new Indysports and made up all that time in one run" lol. 

irish44j said:My point was that tire wars are what ruined autocross to some degree, and now they're starting to do the same for rallycross - where if you have a ton of money, you can buy the right tire for any condition or surface.

I think it's more a thing where there's an incredible amount of choice.  When I started rallycrossing, everyone who had rally tires ran Kumhos, because Tire Rack sold Kumho rally tires.  Hell, the photo I have of my '81 from the RXNC in '08 has it riding on Kumhos...  But your other options were Michelins for $bank, or... who else was selling rally tires in the US?

Now, between private importers, growing markets, and the greater interconnected ease in which we can click on an out of country distributor's Web page and give them a credit card number, we have Black Rockets, and Dmacks, and Indy Sports, and Hoosiers, and MRFs, and those weird Lithuanian tires, and a half dozen others, and fifteen different opinions for every surface on which tire is "best".  (And never Hankooks, those things frickin' sucked  )

To be honest, once it is muddy, they all turn into slicks, but I also remember Warren showing up to Nationals with like 24 tires on the trailer, including some Colway slicks that felt more like foam than rubber.  And it should be noted, his Evo stayed on the same tires all weekend, so the giant carefully curated display of tires was apprently just for intimidation factor...

Knurled. said:

irish44j said:My point was that tire wars are what ruined autocross to some degree, and now they're starting to do the same for rallycross - where if you have a ton of money, you can buy the right tire for any condition or surface.

 

I think it's more a thing where there's an incredible amount of choice.  When I started rallycrossing, everyone who had rally tires ran Kumhos, because Tire Rack sold Kumho rally tires.  Hell, the photo I have of my '81 from the RXNC in '08 has it riding on Kumhos...  But your other options were Michelins for $bank, or... who else was selling rally tires in the US?

 

Now, between private importers, growing markets, and the greater interconnected ease in which we can click on an out of country distributor's Web page and give them a credit card number, we have Black Rockets, and Dmacks, and Indy Sports, and Hoosiers, and MRFs, and those weird Lithuanian tires, and a half dozen others, and fifteen different opinions for every surface on which tire is "best".  (And never Hankooks, those things frickin' sucked  )

 

To be honest, once it is muddy, they all turn into slicks, but I also remember Warren showing up to Nationals with like 24 tires on the trailer, including some Colway slicks that felt more like foam than rubber.  And it should be noted, his Evo stayed on the same tires all weekend, so the giant carefully curated display of tires was apprently just for intimidation factor...

but the thing is that  the Michelins, Hoosiers, Dmacks, Kumhos, etc are all essentially similar tires. Each may be a bit better than others in one aspect, but they are all just typical rally gravels, when it comes down to it (and they are actual rally tires) - heavy with a relatively hard compound.

The black rockets and Indysports and Maxsports nd Unigoms are not rally tires . They're specialty grass/mud tires that are lighter with less sidewall - much better for rallycross. . Can't really compare the two groups any more than you can say Altimax Arctics and Star Specs are "the same since they're both street tires" 

As to Warren.... First time I saw warren, the word at that event was that his Evo build cost was more than the cost of all the other cars in the class COMBINED lol (mostly a bunch of GCs).  

In reply to irish44j :

My BRs are definitely built on rally carcasses, and are intended to be gravel rally tires. You can stand on an unmounted tire and it won't flex, and they are a lot heavier than a 185/65-15 snow tire.  If anything they are actually stiffer in sidewall than the Falken rally tires I had for my Golf.

I see this as a detriment - if there is any benefit to be gained by lower pressures, it is lost in increased rolling resistance and decreased compliance.  It's like dribbling a flat basketball, it just don't work.

I haven't had dismounted Indy Sports or Maxsports to play with to see what they are like.

When i get a rallycross car. I am going to try to stay in SR. 

Knurled. said:

In reply to irish44j :

My BRs are definitely built on rally carcasses, and are intended to be gravel rally tires. You can stand on an unmounted tire and it won't flex, and they are a lot heavier than a 185/65-15 snow tire.  If anything they are actually stiffer in sidewall than the Falken rally tires I had for my Golf.

 

I see this as a detriment - if there is any benefit to be gained by lower pressures, it is lost in increased rolling resistance and decreased compliance.  It's like dribbling a flat basketball, it just don't work.

 

I haven't had dismounted Indy Sports or Maxsports to play with to see what they are like.

BR's are retreads of rally carcasses, i forgot. But IIRC they basically have the same standard gravel treads, don't they?