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newold_m (Forum Supporter)
newold_m (Forum Supporter) New Reader
6/5/20 12:46 a.m.

They're fun little cars, on my 2nd MSM now. First was Ti and this current one is sun faded VR.

@Keith: any chance FM can work its magic and customize the Voodoo box for the MSM ECU to smooth out the power delivery? Stock ECU is the worst aspect of the car with inconsistent tip in. Both my cars have the O2 clamp and those don't seem to do much. Chip Torque in Australia seems to have figured out to 'flash' the ECU but sadly that option is tied to Begi Tuning in US and I'm not dealing with them anymore and it's not practical to send an ECU back and forth the the other part of the world and hope it works first time. 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
6/5/20 9:00 a.m.

Voodoo Box is a different kind of beast, so it's not the right solution for this problem. The O2 clamp does address lean tip-in, if it's not doing much then you may have something else going on. It might be worth datalogging what's going on so you can work in the right direction.

And I have to say that the window for new parts development for the MSM is pretty close to closed at this point. The car is 15 years old, limited production and we don't have access to one. It's pretty unlikely that you'll see new MSM-specific parts from us or anyone else.

newold_m (Forum Supporter)
newold_m (Forum Supporter) New Reader
6/7/20 5:06 p.m.

Yeah, understand and it's definitely a niche market. Appreciate the support you guys have provided on that platform. I have the carb legal downpipe and coolant re-route with the MSM specific turbo coolant lines waiting to go in. 

wspohn
wspohn Dork
6/8/20 12:33 p.m.

I've always admired the Miata, not so much for styling, which I found derivative and somewhat lacking (like most Japanese cars), at least up until the current iteration, but for the fact that it was a very technically/mechanically 'together' car that did a good job of being a latter day Lotus Elan, except with reliability.

I have never quite understood Mazda's reluctance to make a limited run of cars with a higher performance level, with the exception of this turbo version, as I would think that there would have been a market for them from people that probably wouldn't have bought the plain jane model. 

They had the technology, having developed the tool with the Mazdaspeed 3 prior to 2007.  They had been in competition with new sports cars like the Solstice that at first met them on a fairly level playing field with the naturally aspirated model, but blew them out of the water from 2007 on in terms of performance, and didn't seem to have any trouble selling both the original naturally aspirated models.

What did Mazda have against selling more cars when they had the tolling to do so fairly easily (they had lagged below the Solstice in sales in the Fall of 2007)?

I have looked at the Miata and the Mazdaspeed 3 and while there are some obvious packaging changes needed for the turbo, nothing seemed to be insurmountable (Keith can speak up if I am out in left field on that).

 

Keith Tanner
Keith Tanner MegaDork
6/8/20 1:55 p.m.

Well, the Mazdaspeed Miata proved that more performance is not necessarily the hot seller everyone claims it's going to be. It was not a massive sales success.

You also have to remember OE levels of reliability required. IF they had been able to make the 2.3 turbo fit (including mods to the firewall, so it's not an easy swap), they would have had to upgrade pretty much all the rest of the car.  And keep in mind that Mazda is a pretty small automaker, so they can't develop products as easily as someone the size of Ford or GM. It's amazing we get the Miata at all.

Stefan (Forum Supporter)
Stefan (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
6/8/20 2:28 p.m.

Lets not forget the Miata wasn't their only sportscar for a good bit.

The 2nd and 3rd gen RX7's were available from 1989-2002 and were the "halo" car for Mazda.

There was also the RX-8, but lets not talk about that too much :)

As to the styling?  Of course it is derivative.  The NA is a Japanese Lotus Elan (that was reliable and approachable), they even used recordings of the gear changes from an Elan for the development of the Miata.

I mean its like you're not aware of what the Miata is.

Floating Doc (Forum Supporter)
Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) UltraDork
6/8/20 3:33 p.m.

My first Miata was a MSM clone, a lava orange repaint with some MSM body parts on an 01 sport.

I wasn't sure about the color until I saw it in person. 

Snrub
Snrub HalfDork
6/8/20 4:06 p.m.

The other thing is in most recent years Mazda has not sold a huge number of Miatas. A special performance edition which moves a peak of 1000 units/year in the US may not pay for the engineering and unique parts needed for such an endeavor.

I'm kind of disenchanted with fast cars on the street. The Miata is designed for maximum fun on the street and I think they hit the nail on the head with the ND. I'd rather have something which is responsive, short wheel base, fun, than something with big power. Track is a different story, but there's lot of aftermarket support to do stuff like that.

Pete. (l33t FS)
Pete. (l33t FS) MegaDork
6/9/20 6:49 a.m.

In reply to Snrub :

I had this thought the other day.  I find a lot of fun in driving a light 2 seater car that makes no more than 100hp.  That's a true sports car. Before you get into a "true Scotsman" rant, bear with me a bit.  I'm thinking here of MGs and Triumphs and other things that defined the breed.  They were fun because they were so low-key.  You get in, you drive it, it's a four wheeled bicycle basically.

 

Exactly nobody will make a car like that anymore because people will be upset that it can't do a rolling burnout at 60mph or whatever.  Even though that is missing the whole point of the experience in the first place.  It's like saying a big truck sucks because it has a wide turning radius and doesn't get 50mpg, or why a Fit sucks because it can't tow 40,000lb.  That isn't the point of the vehicle and if that is what you want you were looking in the wrong place.

 

Still think the 1.6 Miata is best Miata.  I drove an NC the other day and while it is nice, I thought the car was too big and the engine too trucky.  Much too much power and torque.

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