AngryCorvair
AngryCorvair MegaDork
9/12/19 11:42 p.m.

Seeking input re shifter travel from people who like the throws on their 5MT or 6MT cars.

  1. what year make model and trans?
  2. Fore-aft distance the shift knob travels from 1st to 2nd
  3. Side-side distance the shift knob travels from the 1-2 gate to the 5-6 gate

I'm gonna measure a coworker’s FoST tomorrow, but I’d like some more data as I work out the brackets and bellcranks for adapting cable shifter to my Audi 01X.

thanks!

Toyman01
Toyman01 MegaDork
9/13/19 5:59 a.m.

I'll try to get some measurements from the G35 today. Over all I've been pretty happy with the way it shifts. 

 

mad_machine
mad_machine MegaDork
9/13/19 6:43 a.m.

I don't know the throws because the car is in pieces, but one of the best transmissions for feel I ever shifted was the one in my Fiat 124. Yes, it is made of glass and the throws are long by today's standards, but it was precise with just enough weight to let you know what you were doing.

 

That has always been the transmission I have compared everything to, since 1989.

Ian F
Ian F MegaDork
9/13/19 7:23 a.m.

I'll try to get measurements of my R53 when I get home in two weeks if nobody gets them to you first.  

Streetwiseguy
Streetwiseguy MegaDork
9/13/19 7:31 a.m.

Go find a Celica with a six speed from the early 00's, measure that, and make it at least twice as wide and long as that.

A Neon is perfect.  Seriously. In ten years of racing, I've made only one money shift, and that was the nasty shift in the middle of turn 2 and 3.  Didn't even lose a rocker arm, but I thought I'd busted the tach when I jammed it back into first the second time.

 

bobzilla
bobzilla MegaDork
9/13/19 7:36 a.m.

I have sticky cables in the Tib right now, but the length of throw is perfect IMO. But then again, coming from the Truck with 2' shift throws anything will probably feel great. 

TR7
TR7 Reader
9/13/19 8:06 a.m.

I never really thought about the throws as much as I thought about how my cars shifted. I like how the ZF5 in my F250 shifts.... the 6 speed in my GTI is kinda vague if your sitting there thinking about it, but works really well when your driving it.  Porsche 944 is terrible.

Curtis
Curtis UltimaDork
9/13/19 8:44 a.m.

94 Mazda B4000 pickup, M5OD.

Throw from first to second = 4.3 miles

Time to shift from first to second (with Ford's slave cylinder design that always lets the clutch drag a wee bit) = 1 hockey season.

Not recommended.

AngryCorvair
AngryCorvair MegaDork
9/13/19 9:47 a.m.

curtis, my daily is 2001 sonoma 4.3/5MT so i know your pain.

toyman, thanks in advance, i appreciate it!

bobzilla, looking forward to the numbers, if you care to measure and send them.

Streetwiseguy and mad_machine, by making my problem public, it is now your problem.  i didn't come here to get assignments.  i came here to give assignments and get answers!  ;-)

Ian, i hope to have my shifter done by then but i'll take your data if you send it.

TR7, my 944 shifter was crap until i replaced the bushing and pin where the lever and rod attach under the shift boot.  the bushing wore out, which made the interface metal on metal, which wore the pin, which made it very sloppy.

Ian F
Ian F MegaDork
9/13/19 9:50 a.m.

In reply to AngryCorvair :

I just remembered a coworker here in NH has a R56 with a 6 spd, which is essentially the same as my R53.  I'll try to get measurements from her car.

AngryCorvair
AngryCorvair MegaDork
9/13/19 9:53 a.m.

In reply to Ian F :

thanks!

 

i'm just looking for tape measure accuracy, 1/4" resolution is plenty good enough.

llysgennad
llysgennad Reader
9/13/19 11:39 a.m.

Jeep CJ-7 with a custom 70's Clark 280VO 5-speed. Behind a raucous 360 V-8.

Initially, I could not install the shifter because it hit the dashpad in neutral. After bending it 31 degrees backwards about 5 inches above the mounting plate (which was easy since I had no tunnel) it was much better. Still blocked the rearview mirror, so I hacksawed off about 18 inches and rethreaded it for my 8-ball. Much better. The throws are about 12-15 inches fore and aft, depending on which gear you're grabbing. Side to side is aboot 3 inches I'd say. So 7 inches total. The pattern took some getting used to, but I've grown to like it.

wvumtnbkr
wvumtnbkr UberDork
9/13/19 11:51 a.m.

Miata?  Don't have one, but I figured that should be the benchmark!

AAZCD
AAZCD HalfDork
9/13/19 12:16 p.m.

Take a quick look through this thread: http://986forum.com/forums/diy-project-guides/54726-ball-bearing-short-shifter.html

I'm not sure if he has the details in there, but some of his info might be handy. Ben has made some good stuff and would probably be interested in your project if you contact him. https://benautodesign.fr/en/contact-us

TR7
TR7 Reader
9/13/19 12:19 p.m.

2017 GTI is 2" Fore-aft from center, 4" gear to gear, and 1.5" (the fat side of 1.25") side to center, 3" side to edis. I maintain, that even after a shifter and linkage rebuild, my 944 is comparatively 'not-great' at best.

Stefan
Stefan MegaDork
9/13/19 12:31 p.m.

I'll go measure my FoRS (which the stock shifter is an improvement over the FoST), but I'll say the stock throw wasn't great, IMO.  I put a short shifter into it along with solid bushings and it has made a huge improvement in throw.  It used to be that reaching 5th and 6th was a bit awkward, but with the shorter throw, its much more manageable.  As long as the effort required is manageable without ruining any chance of having mechanical sympathy, a shorter throw is almost always better.

TR7, I agree that the 944 needs improvement.   I put an Only944.com style shifter (I built my own with the same bearings, moved the pickup point upwards 1/2", but I put an aftermarket weighted shift knob and modified the shift boot) and their linkage on my old 951S and it made a nice improvement in throw and feel.  There is still a good amount of material to move and the Audi box isn't the greatest for feel, so it just isn't ever going to be as good as some.

Speaking of mechanical sympathy, my 924 has the "dogleg" or Porsche 915 based transaxle and its syncro's are made of butterfly wings, so you don't shift them quickly.  Ever. 

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
9/13/19 12:42 p.m.

I’m gonna give you a couple more dimensions than you asked for, because I think there are other factors that make me like/ dislike a shifter...

2000 Miata NB

Fore/ aft travel from 1 to 2- 2 7/8”

Side/ side from 1/2 gate to 5/6 gate- 2 1/4”

Height of shifter- 5 1/2” from pivot 

Neutral gate- 4” rearward of my knee in comfortable driving position. 

CL of steering wheel to 1/2 gate- 13”.

I love this shifter.  Notchy, firm, well defined gates.  My hand lands directly on it when I rest it on the console.

 

2003 Pontiac Vibe GT:

Fore/ aft travel from 1 to 2- 3 1/2”

Side/ side from 1/2 gate to 5/6 gate- 3 5/8”

Height of shifter- 7 1/2” from pivot 

Neutral gate- 1 1/2” rearward of my knee in comfortable driving position. 

CL of steering wheel to 1/2 gate- 11 3/4”.

I don’t like this shifter. It has a sloppy lazy feel.  Feels too far to reach. 

DeadSkunk  (Warren)
DeadSkunk (Warren) PowerDork
9/13/19 12:46 p.m.

2003 MINI CooperS-6 speed.....1-2 is 3.5"....l-r is 4" (this is with a short throw attachment)

1999 Miata - 5 speed...................1-2 is 3"........l-r is 2.25"

1991 VW GTI - 5 speed................1-2 is 5".........l-r is 1.75"

L-R is from 1-2 gate to 5th.

Snrub
Snrub HalfDork
9/13/19 12:59 p.m.

The FRS/BRZ/86, RX-8 and NB 6-speed use variants of the Aisin AZ6. It differs in each application, but it's the second best I've ever used.

Best shifter I've experienced is in the ND.

AngryCorvair
AngryCorvair MegaDork
9/13/19 1:10 p.m.
TR7 said:

2017 GTI is 2" Fore-aft from center, 4" gear to gear, and 1.5" (the fat side of 1.25") side to center, 3" side to edis. I maintain, that even after a shifter and linkage rebuild, my 944 is comparatively 'not-great' at best.

side 2 edis is not lost on me.  well done.

AngryCorvair
AngryCorvair MegaDork
9/13/19 1:15 p.m.

Corvair floor is flat.  stock shift lever pivot is about 2" above floor, which requires a long lever to get the ball anywhere near a natural hand-just-falls-to-it position.  then of course the throws are truckish in length.  AAZCD was kind enough to sell me a Boxster shifter and cables, but i'm going to have to put the shifter on a pedestal to keep decently-short throws.   i will detail the calculations and construction in my build thread.

Toyman01
Toyman01 MegaDork
9/13/19 1:47 p.m.

2003 G35. 6 speed, DC008. 

All gears are 2" from neutral. 

4" 1-2

4" 3-4

4" 5-6

Distance from 1/2 gate to 3/4 gate is 1" 

The 5/6 gate is 1" from the 3/4 gate. 

The reverse gate is another 1" to the right.

I've shifted tighter and didn't particularly like it. Too tight and felt unnatural. That was a much notchier transmission (M5R2) and known for poor shift quality.  These just seem to be where they should be. 

Let me add that I almost never try to speed shift it. The fraction of a second saved isnt' worth the abuse. I might prefer a shorter throw if I did. 

Sonic
Sonic UltraDork
9/13/19 3:09 p.m.

I’ll try to remember to get measurements from the NSX when I get home, that shifter is awesome. 

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