ND Miata's and Superchargers!

So I have a very strong desire for an ND Miata next year, preferable a 19+, but I started thinking about the E-Force Supercharger. 

1. Early NDs are coming down in price nicely compared to the 19+, so the extra cost of the S/C becomes a bit more bearable.

2. Is there an underdrive pulley to get a bit more ooomph out of the current kit, I haven't been able to find anything?

3. Probably more a Keith/Edelbrock question, I wonder if there any plans to update the E-Force kit to work on the 19+ engines?

*Keith to the courtesy phone. Thoughts on 16-18 with FI vs the 19? The 19 with FI would just be bonkers then right?

Just to clarify, the supercharger is a belt driven accessory, so Underdrive pulleys slow them down and make less boost. You probably don't want that.

In reply to STM317 :

I think he was talking about a smaller pulley to put on the SC snout.  The smaller pulley increases the RPM of the SC relative to the engine RPM unit increasing boost pressure.  

I know smaller pulleys are available.  The question here seems more related to operational efficiency and tuning at higher boost.  more boost just (generally) reduces the longevity of your engine.  

I've driven both of these on the street and the track. We sell them both.

First, don't discount the turbos. The BBR turbo has a huge midrange advantage over the E-Force and is emissions legal in all 50 states.  The turbo is the torque monster. It's actually a great illustration of why you shouldn't focus on peak power alone. Every single person at FM would recommend the BBR turbo, but the supercharger is less expensive.

If you feel you really need the supercharger - you do not want to spin that blower any harder, as there isn't enough fuel to feed higher boost at high rpm. The reduction in lifespan in this sort of situation is not a "your engine will wear out faster", but more of a "why are the rods on the outside" scenario. There are some folks pushing harder, but once you get past 25% duty cycle in a DI engine weird things start happening.

Edelbrock has not given us any information on if they're going to update the SC for the 2019 engines. It would require some new castings. The turbos are ready to go as soon as the engine management has been sorted out. The 2019 may not feel any different with a turbo, as we're having to drop the boost near redline to keep the fuel where we want it.

NordicSaab said:

In reply to STM317 :

I think he was talking about a smaller pulley to put on the SC snout.  The smaller pulley increases the RPM of the SC relative to the engine RPM unit increasing boost pressure.  

 

I know smaller pulleys are available.  The question here seems more related to operational efficiency and tuning at higher boost.  more boost just (generally) reduces the longevity of your engine.  

Correct, I guess I should have made that more clear. 

But that's exactly it. Would you then be spinning the Supercharger past it's limit? Past it's efficiency so you're just creating more heat, but no more power? Is there enough headroom in the fuel system to add a few more psi?

I know there are pulley's available to increase boost for E-Force BRZ/GT86 kits. But they also have a dramatically oversized stock fuel system. The stock fuel system in the BRZ will handle approaching 280-290whp.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Thanks for the comparo! The money wasn't really a concern vs just baking things under the hood in the Oklahoma heat.......long-term. 

I guess at this point there is still no way to get more fuel into the engine whether it's an upgraded HPFP or LPFP? I know the BMW guys can get some extra out of the DI systems just using a stronger LPFP to get more to the HPFP. Then when the chase for power really gets intense, they upgrade the HPFP.

There have been turbo Miatas in southern heat for decades. Baking things isn't really a factor.

You also have the problem with destroying rods if you try to push the power further. The blower and the turbo can both handle it, they're not a limiting factor.

Stop trying to race a dyno sheet. Remember how everyone was so upset about how the ND was going to be so slow with 155 hp, and they shut up when the cars actually hit the market? It's the same thing here. Light car, flat torque curve, faster than you expect. 

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Keith - Is the limiting factor the SC efficiency range or the ability to get additional fuel into the engine?  

The answer to your question is cleverly hidden in my previous posts.

Keith Tanner said:

There have been turbo Miatas in southern heat for decades. Baking things isn't really a factor.

You also have the problem with destroying rods if you try to push the power further. The blower and the turbo can both handle it, they're not a limiting factor.

Stop trying to race a dyno sheet. Remember how everyone was so upset about how the ND was going to be so slow with 155 hp, and they shut up when the cars actually hit the market? It's the same thing here. Light car, flat torque curve, faster than you expect. 

Gotcha. Mainly asking out of curiosity.  Maybe Edelbrock will announce something regarding the 19+ before next spring. 

Just the old FYI, I did send Edelbrock an email last week and received this answer back:

"Hello Buddy,

The tuning software company (ECUTek) has yet to break into the new ECU code & map it completely. No fitment or calibration development will be started on 2019 model vehicle till a stable software version is available to Edelbrock. Check back in a couple months.

Thank you for contacting Edelbrock."

I've been paying attention to that too. My dad's looking to order an ND soon and has his heart set on supercharging it. 

MazdaFace said:

I've been paying attention to that too. My dad's looking to order an ND soon and has his heart set on supercharging it. 

Yeah that's a factor for me, I know Keith has laid out why the turbo is better, I want a superchargerer!

I just asked this in another thread, but it looks like this one has eyes on it:

How do the automatic transmissions hold up under boost?