New car - dealer wants SSN?

Buying a new car in a couple of days. We're bringing a bank check. The dealer insists that they need my SSN... but why? The state motor vehicles doesn't need it...

Common practice - why? Or am I headed for a scam?

Offer a copy of you D/L. A dealer should not need SSN unless financing is done thru their F&I dept.

I'd tell them to eff off. No way I'm trusting them with my SSN, that is what a Drivers License Number exists for.

Tell them to go pound. Or make one up.

I bet they want to show you some "attractive" financing options (so they can make a commission on the sale of the financing.)
Remember, a dealership is not required to show you the lowest financing you qualify for, just the lowest you will accept.
Do not give the soc but picture ID may be needed for acceptance of the check. Stop at the bank on the way to the dealership and bring cash?

Wow that was quick. Thanks team!

They'll probably give you some male bovine excrement about "know your customer/anti-terror/think of the children" type laws that require them to verify your identity - ask them if they're a financial institution (they're not, and the laws they tend to cite only apply to financial institutions) so at that point, tell them to heff hoff. If they don't take the hint, get them to point out which part of the law they're supposedly referring to states that they need your SSN.

They want the SSN because they want to run your credit and inundate you with credit offers even if you pay cash or in case you'd give them a rubber check.

Or go find a more cooperative dealer.

Yes, does your situation involve the movement of more than $10k? The IRS requires reporting for that but I am not sure how that applies here.

Wouldn't paying cash/check for a car count as moving more than $10K?

JohnRW1621 wrote: Yes, does your situation involve the movement of more than $10k? The IRS requires reporting for that but I am not sure how that applies here.

I think that is out of the country and or a transaction with a bank. Since the transaction is really between the bank and the dealership I don't see how you need one. I have a friend that works at a dealer if I see him I will ask.

Tell the salesman, or his boss; that the competing Stealership down the road doesn not require your SSN.

Had a salesgirl try to write my credit card number on a check I wrote, she thought it was required. No, no, lets get your boss.

Apparently buying a car without dealer financing is a suspicious activity.

Thank you US Patriot Act.

nocones wrote: Wouldn't paying cash/check for a car count as moving more than $10K?

Not in the situation of the car I bought last night or the other 3 I have purchased before that which combined don't even add up to $10K.

In reply to Datsun1500:

Error 404: Page not found.

I'm being told that its required for "taxation and titling purposes". Will check the IRS link above - thanks

Datsun1500 wrote: http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Small-Businesses-&-Self-Employed/FAQs-Regarding-Reporting-Cash-Payments-of-Over-$10,000-(Form-8300) According to the IRS a bank check is considered cash, and it needs to be reported. You can see the above link, which is law, or heed the experts on here and tell the dealer to berkeley off. Your choice.

Only if above 10,001$ dollars, which I am guessing a new car covers.

JohnRW1621 wrote: Yes, does your situation involve the movement of more than $10k? The IRS requires reporting for that but I am not sure how that applies here.

To expand a little bit on the above statement: The 10K cash threshold is to help identify and prevent money laundering. It is required reporting to the government for all companies. Even if you try to get around it by writing a check for $6K and another for $5K the company will still need to report the transaction to the government as the sum is greater than $10K.

The dealership probably wants your SSN to provide proof of your identity. They should be willing / able to accept a copy of your driver license since you are paying with a check.

Quasimo1 wrote:

JohnRW1621 wrote: The dealership probably wants your SSN to provide proof of your identity.

Yes, I think that's true. Never thought I would ever, EVER side with a dealership but they have to protect themselves too.

SSN is actually known as "Tax Identification Number". The rule seems pretty clear.

Form 8300 requires providing the Taxpayer Identification Number (TIN) of the person providing the cash. If the business is unable to obtain the Taxpayer Identification Number of a customer making a cash payment of over $10,000, should the business file Form 8300 anyway? Yes, to fail to file the Form 8300 is prohibited in this situation. However a filer may be able to avoid penalties when the customer refuses to provide a TIN by showing that its failure to file is reasonable under circumstances more fully described in 26 CFR 301.6724-1(e). At a minimum:

The business should request the TIN at the time of the transaction. If the person providing the cash refuses to provide the TIN, the business should inform the person required to provide the TIN that he or she is subject to a $50 penalty imposed by the Internal Revenue Service under section 6723 [26 USCS § 6723] if he or she fails to furnish his or her TIN;
Maintain contemporaneous records showing the solicitation was properly made and provide such contemporaneous records to IRS upon request,
Accompany the incomplete filed Form by a statement explaining why the TIN is not included.
If a TIN is not received as a result of the initial solicitation (at the time of the transaction) the first annual solicitation must be made on or before December 31 of the year in which the account was opened (transaction occurred) or January 31 of the following year for accounts opened in the preceding December following the same procedures.

As already stated, it has nothing to do with the Patriot Act, those laws pertain more to financial institutions, though the many money laundering laws and policies are very closely tied and occasionally overlap. I'm financially licensed for the communications jobs that I carry out for my company, so I get to take the MANY fun exams, courses, and general FYI's that pertain to Anti-Money Laundering laws, etc every year.

You can try not giving them your SSN and see what they say, or why not just ask them what the purpose of it is instead of jumping to conclusions first?

Seems like a tax thing. Why the DMV person on the phone didn't realize, I have no idea...

http://dmv.ny.gov/forms/dtf802.pdf

Thanks all

I deal with it at work a lot myself, fairly common.

I don't think they need his SSN, unless I'm misreading things at that link:

6.What does “cash” mean for the purposes of Form 8300? For purposes of Form 8300:
•Cash is money. It is currency and coins of the United States and any other country.
•Cash is also certain monetary instruments - a cashier’s check, bank draft, traveler’s check, or money order - if it has a face amount of $10,000 or less and the business receives it in:
•A “designated reporting transaction” as defined in Treas. Reg. section 1.6050I-1(c)(iii) (generally, a retail sale of a consumer durable, a collectible, a travel or entertainment activity) or
•Any transaction in which the recipient knows the payer is trying to avoid the reporting of the transaction on Form 8300."

So a cashiers check is only considered cash if it's $10,000 or less, not $10,001 or more? Weird.

Also:

"11.Is a personal check considered cash for reporting on Form 8300? No. Personal checks are not considered cash."

Am I missing something? As far as I can tell the dealer only needs to file a form 8300 if it's paid in more than $10,000 in actual money (actual dollar bills and/or coins) or if there are multiple cashiers checks for less than $10,000 that add up to more than $10,000 and only if the dealer knows that the buyer is doing it to try to avoid filing a form 8300.

Is there another form for non-cash purchases over $10,000? Does the bank have to report to the IRS when a cashier's check over $10,000 is purchased? That might be why they don't have the business report it (avoiding duplicate reports).

If I'm completely missing something obvious, please let me know.

bludroptop wrote: Apparently buying a car without dealer financing is a suspicious activity. Thank you US Patriot Act.

not so sure about that ... my Mom just purchased a new Fit and wrote a personal check ($17000) no problem, no SSN ... as a matter of fact we took the car home and the check didn't even clear for more than a week

Datsun1500 wrote: IRS Link According to the IRS a bank check is considered cash, and it needs to be reported. You can see the above link, which is law, or heed the experts on here and tell the dealer to berkeley off. Your choice.

If an item (an automobile, for example) sells for $9,950 but the buyer pays $10,650 (sales price plus state and local taxes). Would this be considered a designated reporting transaction (retail sale of a consumer durable) requiring the definition of cash to be expanded to include monetary instruments?

No. In determining a designated reporting transaction, a consumer durable is defined as tangible personal property that is generally suited for personal use, is expected to last at least one year under ordinary use, and has a sale price of more than $10,000 (exclusive of sales tax). If the sales price is less than $10,000, then the tangible personal property would not be a consumer durable regardless of any taxes.

Is a personal check considered cash for reporting on Form 8300?

No. Personal checks are not considered cash.