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wcelliot
wcelliot Reader
9/21/10 11:25 a.m.
m4ff3w wrote:
wcelliot wrote: Lotus has made heavy, semi-luxury GT's before... Eclat, Elite (70's not original), etc... some of the most beloved Lotuses ever built. Or maybe not. ;-)
The Elite/Eclat/Excel were sub-2500lbs, no?

About the same percentage weight differential from their sports cars then (Elan, Europa) as from their sports cars now. Heavy for the time period.... and over 2500lbs by the end of their run. The Esprit wasn't particulary lightweight either and got very fat over the run)

NOHOME
NOHOME Reader
9/21/10 11:25 a.m.
96DXCivic wrote:
triumph5 wrote: Lotus is following the disposable-income," I can afford it," halo car market to get its name re-associated with Ferrari, Lambo, Porsche, and others when one lays down $180K, wants 0-62mph in 3.2-ish sceonds, and tops out around 190mph. Also has an air of exclusivity desired by that buyer. And there's room in the back (sounds wierd with Lotus) for kiddies/stuff. In short Lotus is working on expanding their customer base and name association---qualities every company needs to survive.
They have survived since 1952 with just bare bones sports cars. Why do they need to change now?

Umhhh....because they have NOT survived? Never really thrived since Colling was never a business man, bought by GM of all people with the expected results, and now the Malasian outfit is trying to create an actual car comapny, rather than a car, around the asset (name) that they purchased.

Saw an actual Evora this week-end and while it is quite large parked next to the Elise, I would not say no to driving it.

Jay
Jay Dork
9/21/10 11:30 a.m.

The Evora isn't that big either, it's comparable to a 944. This new thing is so out of character for Lotus... It's a gamble for them for sure. If they get it right I can see the spillover prestige help move their more typical models (lightweight track toys) - after all, Mr. Playboy wants something to go lapping at Silverstone in, and he sure likes his comfy GT that he drives to Monte Carlo and back...

If they don't get it right though, ouch.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork
9/21/10 11:32 a.m.
wcelliot wrote:
m4ff3w wrote:
wcelliot wrote: Lotus has made heavy, semi-luxury GT's before... Eclat, Elite (70's not original), etc... some of the most beloved Lotuses ever built. Or maybe not. ;-)
The Elite/Eclat/Excel were sub-2500lbs, no?
About the same percentage weight differential from their sports cars then as from their sports cars now. Heavy for the time period....

Their sports cars of the period were 1800lbs, the Elite was 2150. The Eclat was 2350. That is roughly 550lbs difference.

The Elise S in US trim is 1,896 lb. The new car is 3600. That is not really the same percentage wise for those at home doing the math.

Knurled
Knurled HalfDork
9/21/10 11:43 a.m.
Otto_Maddox wrote: Why do so many manufacturers figure that success in their niche is best followed up by branching out? Sometimes people should just stick to what they do best.

Yeah, like Checker!

Oh. Wait.

Knurled
Knurled HalfDork
9/21/10 11:43 a.m.
Otto_Maddox wrote: Why do so many manufacturers figure that success in their niche is best followed up by branching out? Sometimes people should just stick to what they do best.

Yeah, like Checker!

Oh. Wait.

wcelliot
wcelliot Reader
9/21/10 11:46 a.m.

Thank you for your ability to use a calculator.

My Europa S2 weighed about 1350, making the early GT's about 60% heavier and the later GT's over 80% heavier. Same ballpark.

And a 3600lb GT is light today compared to the average car... just as one 1000+ lbs lighter was light then. Didn't help them then, won't help them now.

Whatever the specific numbers, the sentiment is still the same... the popularity of a new "touring GT" will be about the same as it was with their previous "touring GT's"... that's the point I was making.

Apexcarver
Apexcarver SuperDork
9/21/10 1:18 p.m.

You guys have forgotten a lotus that according to Wikipedia weighs the same, had 377hp, and 4 doors...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lotus_Carlton

Otto_Maddox
Otto_Maddox Reader
9/21/10 1:21 p.m.

Your linky says it is a Vauxhall upgraded by Lotus, much like my former 1988 Isuzu Impulse Turbo RS Special Edition.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork
9/21/10 1:30 p.m.
wcelliot wrote: Thank you for your ability to use a calculator.

No calculator necessary. I can do that on my fingers and toes except for the division part. For that I keep a few pies on hand.

Otto_Maddox
Otto_Maddox Reader
9/21/10 1:38 p.m.

Why don't they make Maseratis like they used to in the good old days?

Giant Purple Snorklewacker
Giant Purple Snorklewacker SuperDork
9/21/10 1:52 p.m.
Otto_Maddox wrote: Why don't they make Maseratis like they used to in the good old days?

m4ff3w
m4ff3w SuperDork
9/21/10 1:55 p.m.
Otto_Maddox wrote: Why don't they make Maseratis like they used to in the good old days?

Chrysler TC by Maserati.

Not Maserati.

That makes me tingly in my manly parts.

Of course, I'd love to have a Merak or Bora as well, but the Biturbo is attainable, I just need to find the right one.

kreb
kreb Dork
9/21/10 2:05 p.m.

In reply to wcelliot:

Your Europa weighed 1350? Wow! I had no idea. It's even less safe than I thought

I find it interesting how few people are weighing (no pun intended) the car on it's own merits. If it's a cool car, why not validate it as such? It's not like any of us are likley to ever own one. The only downside I can see is if it's such a bomb it runs the company out of business. If it's a hit, it will subsidize more cool stuff.

All that said, I find the look a little unremarkable. The Elise is such an iconic car, visually at least, this one not so much.

wcelliot
wcelliot Reader
9/21/10 2:54 p.m.

There is some controversy about what the little cars actually weighed and how much Lotus fudged the numbers... and how much weight the Federal cars added.

It's generally accepted that the S1 cars with fixed windows and a bonded chassis were around 1300 and the S2 cars with electric windows weighed 50-100lbs more, but I've seen numbers as low as 1200 for the S1 and as high as 1450 for the S2. (The TC packed on quite a bit of extra weight with the new driveline).

Still considerably more than my 650lb Berkeley... which was monocoque 'glass well before the Elite.

Quality wise, my Europa (all original, ~30k miles) ranked down with my Trabant and Renault LeCar... and frankly my S1 Esprit (with similarly low mileage) wasn't all that far behind.

I can't imagine many people putting up with that quality in a luxury/sports GT... a lesson that Lotus might look hard at today given some of the quality issues the Elise has...but which the hardcore forgive.

Bill

FlightService
FlightService New Reader
9/21/10 4:35 p.m.
ReverendDexter wrote: If they're smart, this won't be a "Lotus". It'll be a something else with a "Tuned by Lotus" sticker.

Based on the styling it will be the next generation Hyundai Genesis Coupe

Appleseed
Appleseed SuperDork
9/21/10 6:49 p.m.
Otto_Maddox wrote: Why do so many manufacturers figure that success in their niche is best followed up by branching out? Sometimes people should just stick to what they do best.

Just ask Subaru.

Mo money, beoitches!

Javelin
Javelin SuperDork
9/21/10 8:48 p.m.
FlightService wrote:
ReverendDexter wrote: If they're smart, this won't be a "Lotus". It'll be a something else with a "Tuned by Lotus" sticker.
Based on the styling it will be the next generation Hyundai Genesis Coupe

Glad I'm not the only person who thought that. I think it's more last-gen Tiburon though...

mtn
mtn SuperDork
9/21/10 9:04 p.m.

This car is a travesty, a sham and a mockery, its a... Traveshamockery. I'll take mine in blue.

Tyler H
Tyler H Dork
9/21/10 9:32 p.m.

Half the price of the LF-A and lighter to boot. With a Toyota badge on the hood and some manlier mirrors, this would be a winner.

Jensenman
Jensenman SuperDork
9/21/10 9:50 p.m.
ReverendDexter wrote: If they're smart, this won't be a "Lotus". It'll be a something else with a "Tuned by Lotus" sticker.

I gotta go with this. Lotus as we know it now is an engineering company which just happens to make a limited number of some of the best no compromise sports cars available today as a sideline of sorts to that core business. They peddle their smarts to the other companies (GM, Toyota, Tesla, etc) and rake in the licensing fee profits without having to go to all the bother of building and selling an enormous number of compromised cars to keep them afloat. They let the others do the compromising while still having the 'Engineered by Lotus' badge out there.

Was it me running the company, I'd keep it that way. To me, the Evora (while seeming to be a very nice car) will be a low volume profit vampire.

TJ
TJ SuperDork
9/21/10 10:47 p.m.

How did this get to page two without a hotlink of the car in question? Hasn't anyone learned anything at all from the hotlink thread?

I am not a fan. I think it is ugly.

Vigo
Vigo HalfDork
9/21/10 10:56 p.m.
So it's a 3600lb, 2+2 with a 600+hp V8 coupled to an automatic transmission with hybrid assist.

You called? http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/03/ferrari-hy-kers/

Point is, the market for this new type Lotus (Evora too) is WAY bigger than the light track car market.

Really? Im personally kind of wondering who exactly is supposed to buy the Evora. I think its a great car, i just think its compromised toward the light and sharp side of things so much that most people who would want one would just get an Elise.

To the Cayanne justification... It made them more money for sure. They didn't use that money to make anything new at all. They just gave model names to option packages. A GT3 RSR is a GT3 RS with a different spring rate, cams and paint (and bling). A GT2 is a Turbo with more boost. Its marketing drivel we used to call "options" not models. All they did is what GM used to do - make "specials" ala the Richard Petty Edition Grand Prix. They actually used the money to attempt to take over VW and almost ended up in the crapper.

Very good points...

GIVE!! DO WANT!

FlightService
FlightService New Reader
9/22/10 6:30 a.m.
Javelin wrote:
FlightService wrote:
ReverendDexter wrote: If they're smart, this won't be a "Lotus". It'll be a something else with a "Tuned by Lotus" sticker.
Based on the styling it will be the next generation Hyundai Genesis Coupe
Glad I'm not the only person who thought that. I think it's more last-gen Tiburon though...

Rear quarter does look like it

96DXCivic
96DXCivic SuperDork
9/22/10 8:30 a.m.
Vigo wrote:
So it's a 3600lb, 2+2 with a 600+hp V8 coupled to an automatic transmission with hybrid assist.
You called? http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/03/ferrari-hy-kers/
Point is, the market for this new type Lotus (Evora too) is WAY bigger than the light track car market.
Really? Im personally kind of wondering who exactly is supposed to buy the Evora. I think its a great car, i just think its compromised toward the light and sharp side of things so much that most people who would want one would just get an Elise.

Me! Me! Me! I want an Evora!!!!!

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