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ReverendDexter
ReverendDexter Dork
6/24/10 3:28 p.m.
Wally wrote: The correct answer is AWD, in the form of a minivan based on a car disguised as a pickup truck.

But only if you're doing NASCAR.

oldsaw
oldsaw Dork
6/24/10 3:58 p.m.
Buzz Killington wrote: Andy wasn't "trying" to get the car competitive; he did it, and then he moved on. It's not as if he got tired of trying to push that boulder up the hill and realized it was futile.
alfadriver wrote: See STS2 results from most of last season. Generally you'll see CRX- top Miata- not so top. Apparently, given the same set up restrictions, FWD can handle pretty darned well.... It's a big discussion over at Miata.net to close that gap.
All true, but remember that the Civics/CRXs have had a gigantic head start in development time and effort. They are literally YEARS ahead of the Miatas at this point...the Miatas have a lot of catching up to do (literally and figuratively).

How much time is needed for Miata's to finally "catch up"? The 4th gen Civic's/Crx's were introduced two years before the Miata and the Mazda's came out twenty years ago.

Hollis has extensively tested and competed with both platforms. He chooses the one that best fits his particular needs and style - the same issue facing the OP who started this thread.

wbjones
wbjones Dork
6/24/10 4:11 p.m.
alfadriver wrote: See STS2 results from most of last season. Generally you'll see CRX- top Miata- not so top. Apparently, given the same set up restrictions, FWD can handle pretty darned well.... It's a big discussion over at Miata.net to close that gap.

(this from a CRX driver) the advantage the CRX enjoys isn't quite as much in STS as the Civic's is in ST... last yr at the nationals (IIRC) the CRX took 8 of the top 15 and Miata took the other 7 ... is ST the Civic is the "only" car to bring... the highest non-Civic is usually somewhere around 15th..

when the Miata and CRX move on to CSP the tables are turned and the Miata seems to dominate... in Solo, TT, and hillclimbs...

Jensenman
Jensenman SuperDork
6/24/10 4:16 p.m.

I are a RWD lover. I like throttle application oversteer and the ability to tune out understeer. I will take RWD over FWD in a performance driving application every time.

Having said that, I have recently driven a '91 CRX which was set up to rotate nicely, I could drive it very much like the Abomination. Also recently spent a good bit of quality time with the Civic LeMons car, while it pushed and didn't handle as well as the RWD stuff I'm used to or the aforementioned CRX it didn't totally suck.

For DD duty, I can go with either. I drove a Fiesta and a GTi as DDs along with a bunch of RWD Britmobiles, Pintos etc. and I AXed the Fiesta a few times. It plowed like a John Deere but was still a lot of fun.

z31maniac
z31maniac Dork
6/24/10 4:21 p.m.
irish44j wrote: You can get a new WRX (265+hp stock) for under $25k or a used 09 for under 20k, or a used 06 for 10k. And extra power doesn't need a swap, it just needs a Tactrix cable and a downpipe :)

Where is this land of cheap Subaru's?

But I also don't buy 4 year old cars that are worn out with 100k miles. NICE 06-07 around here still seem to be in the $16-20k range.

HiTempguy
HiTempguy HalfDork
6/24/10 5:23 p.m.
thatsnowinnebago wrote: Really? That's pretty rough; I bet you hate all the cheap miata threads here

Actually, while I try not to be a redneck from Alberta, it still is a pretty girly car no matter what people say... and I drive a Swift GTi and am still saying that about a Miata!

Appleseed
Appleseed SuperDork
6/24/10 5:38 p.m.
oldeskewltoy wrote: as with racing....... its the tires baby.... In winter conditions, run a minus 1 tire/wheel combo with PROPER snow tires on ALL four wheels...

Studded tires are illegal around here.

irish44j
irish44j HalfDork
6/24/10 5:53 p.m.
z31maniac wrote:
irish44j wrote: You can get a new WRX (265+hp stock) for under $25k or a used 09 for under 20k, or a used 06 for 10k. And extra power doesn't need a swap, it just needs a Tactrix cable and a downpipe :)
Where is this land of cheap Subaru's? But I also don't buy 4 year old cars that are worn out with 100k miles. NICE 06-07 around here still seem to be in the $16-20k range.

IDK...my 09 was $28k out the door including title/taxes/tags, and it is a premium with all available options including the SPT exhaust (extra $1200). A base wrx (which still has most of the same options minus sucky premium stereo, minus sunroof, minus a few other small things) would be about $25k out the door.

08s you can get dirt cheap - I see them under $20k all the time - since they have the same "old" 225hp, but nobody likes the new body style, lol.

06-07 fetch the highest relative price because they're the favorite years of most WRX owners/buyers.

cheap is relative though. How much will a 4-year old 330i with 100k miles run? alot more than a comparable wrx (I know, I almost bought an 07 330ci). Maybe you can get a Cobalt SS or MS3 for a bit cheaper....but not much.

HiTempguy
HiTempguy HalfDork
6/24/10 6:49 p.m.
z31maniac wrote: But I also don't buy 4 year old cars that are worn out with 100k miles.

Baller! Wish I had that kind of cash to throw around, I consider 200k miles worn out...

alfadriver
alfadriver Dork
6/24/10 7:55 p.m.
wbjones wrote:
alfadriver wrote: my short post
your good reply

Bear in mind, I'm not saying one is better than the other, but that FWD can be very competitive vs. RWD.

One would not want to honestly put a non heavily modified mustang up against a sharp V6 FWD coupe?

There are good for both, there are bad for both. Both can be made to go fast.

The MOST MOST MOST important part of the argument is that you get out and race with whatever you have! Don't make an excuse not to have fun because of whatever the drive layout is.

Eric

Mikey52_1
Mikey52_1 New Reader
6/24/10 8:28 p.m.

Way back a thousand years and a couple lives ago, my old man bought 2 (!) Fiat 128's, a 4 door and a 2 door,both with 4 speeds. They were both early '70ies, and came to be favorite cars despite their innate 'Eye-talian-ness'. Some relatives came out to visit, from central Missouri. We took them up the drive to Cooke City Montana (US 212, at 6000+ feet, tops out at 10,200 or so, lots of switchbacks) They had their 69 Cougar following Dad in the 4 dr. I was behind them in the 2 dr. They were vainly trying to keep up with Dad, who was just motoring up the pass. They were all over the road, taking every bit of available pavement and most of the gravel on the corners. Finally Dad looked back, saw the troubles and pulled into the look-out halfway up the pass. They spent about half an hour there trying to get their shakes to calm down, and ultimately decided that Cooke City could wait for some future visit (which they never did again, IIRC). I was never as disappointed with my aunt and uncle as I was that day. My uncle had ferried fighter planes to Europe during WW2, but he wasn't up to one of the best and prettiest drives available in the western US. The point? As Eric said above...Have fun, dammit! You may never pass this way again, so why not? The whole FWD/RWD debate is really immaterial. Each has its' purposes and interpretations, and it's entirely possible to have fun with either.

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