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jfryjfry
jfryjfry SuperDork
9/6/22 12:30 p.m.

They want $600 for it plus $150 core and doesn't sound like he will actually send me a pic of the bar code.   If he does and it checks out, I might do it.  But I'm out of time and would need to pay someone to go get it since it's about 1-1.5 hours away. 
 

to be continued....

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
9/6/22 12:44 p.m.

Was there an answer to how many miles the car had when it arrived at the JY?  

It might be best to just spend the $2.99 to get that answer.  I feel confident that the website will give a more accurate answer.  The JY has no incentive to be truthful.  

jfryjfry
jfryjfry SuperDork
9/6/22 1:45 p.m.

Good call.  I'll check when/if they get back to me. 

jfryjfry
jfryjfry SuperDork
9/8/22 4:22 p.m.

I tried contacting them through their site, emailed them, and called (no answer) but no response. 

 

Called again and got someone.  Asked about the battery and if they could just tell me what the serial number is to make sure it's a Toyota battery from that car. 

he just said I could come down and look at it.  I told him I was out i town but I could have someone get it if it was the same battery. He said it is a Toyota battery and he didn't have time to go look at it and hung up. 
 

ugh. 
 

ironically, I was just reading through the thread about businesses making it hard to give them money.  

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
9/8/22 4:41 p.m.

And I sometimes wonder if some JYs are just in the business of laundering drug money. 

Or, maybe I watched too much Breaking Bad. 

Too much risk, too little reward with unknown miles. Move on unless we have someone in the area who can lay eyes. 

dculberson
dculberson MegaDork
9/8/22 4:45 p.m.

I once spent a very frustrating three hours at an out of town junkyard waiting for them to pull parts I wanted. I asked them if, in the future, I could pay in advance for the parts via credit card over the phone and they could pull them, then I could pick them up. They said no - then people could charge back the purchase amount. I said, well, I am paying for credit card now - they said but you got the parts so you can't charge back. I said - but you do ship parts. They said - you don't want to pay for shipping since you're so close, that doesn't make sense. I said - yes but the people you ship to are also a chargeback risk. The guy gave me a blank stare. Instead I spent $0 at that yard in the future because I'm not going to turn every trip for parts into a 4 hour waste of time. I'll just find a yard that will pre-pull parts or where I can pull them.

Junk yards are not full of the best and brightest, even if they aren't a drug money laundering front.

jfryjfry
jfryjfry SuperDork
9/15/22 1:47 p.m.

I decided I'd try and find someone and pay them to go look at it and buy it if it was the right one but by the time a neighbor kid was avail, they sold it. 
 

a bit bummed as it could have been a good deal but glad to not give them my business.  Or worse, I pay the kid to go out there and it's not the right one.  
 

so I'm going to try and sort through the batteries listed on car-part and see if I can find another similar story with a factory-replaced one.  

jfryjfry
jfryjfry SuperDork
10/6/22 3:13 a.m.

So I haven't had any luck finding a similar pack like John found.  

i finally came around to being ok spending the big bucks on a new one   Looking like $2000 plus the core    Core isn't a big deal But the dealer I called said that they have to install     I didn't bother to ask how much   
 

I started looking around and learned that rebuilding these packs is pretty easy.  So I figured I'd just replace whatever bad cells I have.  
Then I figured I might as well replace them all since I know mine has degraded over the years  

But I've been looking and all I can find are used cells - no new ones. 
 

i looked deeper and it looks like gen 3 modules are interchangeable with gen 2's.   Then I discover that gen 4 nimh modules are also interchangeable. . 
 

and now I'm on the hunt for a lower mileage gen4 pack. 

DrMikeCSI
DrMikeCSI New Reader
10/6/22 5:19 a.m.

Not as simple as buying a box of AA batteries. 

jfryjfry
jfryjfry SuperDork
11/1/22 9:28 a.m.

So I have returned from my job and first up on my monumental to-do list is reviving the Prius. 
 

when I left it, it would only go into limp mode. 
 

i had the 12v charged up and disconnected it but when I came back, it was dead.  So I think I have a 12v battery issue.  But I'll deal with that in a little bit... for now it's on the charger.  
 

but it prevented me from trying to run a dr Prius app to see what it thought about the battery. Not the end of the world though....   plus I've never run it nor used the bt dongle thing so it probably saved me some time from messing around with a potentially fruitless task. 
 

so now to the project....   I debated the $400 "we come and replace your pack with a rebuilt one" vs the $1200 "lifetime warranty rebuild."   My wife wants a newer car but I'm digging my heels in.  We will see who wins.  If we were to sell immediately, a $400 fix would have been the No-brainer.   But I like to fix things right. 
 

And who knows what condition the cells are in in any of these rebuilt packs???  Especially if they use gen 2 cells which are all going to be 2009 at the newest (unless they happen to get a newer pack.   But I don't know how to read the dates on the modules and I don't think they are going to let me pull apart a pack to check and what will i do if they are all old, and they probably won't all be from the same pack, etc etc. 
 

the problem with the $1200 lifetime is the same module section coupled with the "will they be around in 5 years when this one takes a dump" problem.  Followed by the oft-heard "you have a problem but it is not our battery.  Take it to a shop and get it worked on and we will see what they say."  
 

I initially didn't want to do anything with the pack, equally because of time and because of unfamiliarity. 
 

but as I did my research, I started to see that these aren't intimidating and not that difficult. 
 

I learned that the newer Prius packs, while they don't fit, the modules inside are interchangeable.  The newer cars also mostly have lion cells but the lower end cars often had the nimh like my gen 2. 
 

so I found a pack from a salvage yard in Texas from a 2016 type 2 (meaning nimh) with 31k miles on it.  This was after finding a similar one from another yard in Akron, oh  that I tried to buy.  $950 plus a $250 core plus $350 shipping.  I figured it wasn't a bad deal to not have to lift more than my mouse finger to have show up at my door.  But then they called and said they didn't have it. 
 

after searching some more, I found the one in Texas - $775, No core and $250 shipping. 
 

On a side note, the core charge at a junk yard seems slimy.  Their job is to move parts.  What do they need a core for?

 

anyway, my hesitation was not being able to know for sure if this pack came from that car.  But with not many other options, I pulled the trigger.  
 

as soon as it showed up, first thing was confirming that is is a nimh pack.  It is. 
 

yeaterday I started the process.....   today I will finish. 

jfryjfry
jfryjfry SuperDork
11/1/22 9:45 a.m.

 

 

it only took about 40 mins to get to this point.  This is the void left by the hv traction hybrid battery. 
 

this is the video I used as a guide.  Quick, no nonsense. 
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4YWu-sA3UyU

 

i pulled apart the 16 pack and was surprised to see no vent tubes. 
 

 

i was very nervous, scared that someone had been in before.  There are not many videos or pictures of the newer packs but it looks like they just don't have the tubes.  Perhaps they are better vented (it has foam sealing strips on the top sides ) or maybe the tubes were overkill initially.  Or maybe they are actually missing....

 

I got it apart and checked each module.  Each one read 7.51.  A little low but they've been sitting for who knows how long.  But I was stoked they were all the same.  
i still set them up to balance though, just for fun 

 

i pulled apart my original and expected to see something awful as it only took about 50 miles for it to go from "problem with battery but I'll still get you there on the ice" to "you ain't moving more than about 40, getting there no faster than you can power walk, and i'm going to light up every warning I have and then flash them too. 
 

Maybe an exploded pack... leaking electrolyte....meted connectors...   but it looked pretty calm. 
 

 

disassembly went smoothly and I checked voltages.  They were all about 7.57 +/- .05.  Which means they were out of balance but (maybe) not bad.  Excepting two - two who were not adjacent/paired up were 6.5x.  So that's probably the reason for my fault.  I could have replaced those cells, balanced them all, and got back on the road.  Likely this would have fixed the problem.  But for how long, I don't know.  
 

i'm happy I am replacing them all with matched newer, arguably better modules/cells. 
 

i was concerned about corrosion but figured the new pack used the same copper connectors that would be in great shape since they only have 31k miles. 
 

i was right on one account. 

 

they aren't bad but not really much better than my 180k mile ones.  
 

regardless, I'm using the new ones.  Bathed them in vinegar and now sanding (2500 grit) and cleaning them. 
Nuts, too. 
 

You can buy kits that have new plates and nuts but the original copper is better than the plated ones they sell plus the factory nuts are smooth and level on the back.  A video I watched showed that the ones in some kits are grooved and not flat.  A guy tested a pack, swapping out clean new with this kit and it lost some voltage.  Not much but besides the performance loss, it also means higher resistance which can only hurt longevity. 
 

You can also buy new strips for about $120.  You should also buy new nuts, too.  Not sure on that cost. But get factory ones.  
 

so right now I'm halfway through cleaning and reassembling the nuts and strips.  Then I rebuild the orig pack. 
 

updates to come. 

jfryjfry
jfryjfry SuperDork
11/1/22 1:14 p.m.

I've thrown in the towel on cleaning all of that stuff.  The vinegar bath seems to have messed up the plating on the nuts and I can't clean the threads.  So 56 new ones on their way at $.98 each.  
 

and while I'm at it, I got the wire looms too.  There are wires on each pair that have some corrosion so even after spending 2 hours cleaning the little plates I'll still not know about the wires.  
 

$220. 
 

saving me 2-3 hours of cleaning and having new parts. 
 

 

Indy - Guy
Indy - Guy UltimaDork
11/4/22 8:43 p.m.

In reply to jfryjfry :

Any update to share yet ?

jfryjfry
jfryjfry SuperDork
11/4/22 8:54 p.m.

The nuts were on back order and I hope to have them by tues.  I have the old pack rebuilt as much as I can without the nuts and will

have it together pretty quick. 
 

one difference: the nuts for the pos and neg posts on the 2016 are different than the 2005.   I tried as hard as I could to find the 2016 nuts but the dealer couldn't find them.  It's likely that they aren't selling all the parts separately on the newer one anymore.  
 

while I can tell the newer nuts are better, I just can't find them so I got new 2005 nuts 

Kendall Frederick
Kendall Frederick New Reader
11/5/22 3:56 p.m.

I've done a number of pack rebuilds/module swaps in my 2nd gen Prii with used modules.  We bought some hobby RC car battery chargers so we could cycle them to restore capacity. 

Results have been mixed, generally dependent on how well we matched the modules. I've had a couple run fine for years after a module swap. I've had a couple that would throw periodic P080A codes with one mismatched module pair voltage but reset with the scan tool and run around fine.  This is a pain in the ass when you have to keep the scan tool plugged in the car..

I think replacing them all with newer modules from one factory matched pack is probably the best way to go about it.  I'll be interested to hear how it goes for you.  

Indy - Guy
Indy - Guy UltimaDork
11/5/22 9:48 p.m.

In reply to Kendall Frederick :

Can I get some more information on this Hobby RC car charger for the packs?

Kendall Frederick
Kendall Frederick New Reader
11/6/22 11:00 p.m.
Indy - Guy said:

In reply to Kendall Frederick :

Can I get some more information on this Hobby RC car charger for the packs?

I'll have to look for the brand and specs when I'm down at my buddy's shop this week -- he actually bought the chargers as we had about 5 Prii between us.  They will display amp-hours of charge/discharge, allow setting for a delta V/T shutoff during charging so you can charge them all fully and see if their end voltages are the same, etc.  They'll do one module per charger and he bought 4.  Takes a couple days to run all of the modules through a charge/discharge cycle.

Indy - Guy
Indy - Guy UltimaDork
11/7/22 11:49 a.m.

In reply to Kendall Frederick :

That'd be great.  I just picked up a Prius with a dead battery pack and I'm trying to revive it.

californiamilleghia
californiamilleghia UltraDork
11/7/22 12:03 p.m.
I'll have to look for the brand and specs when I'm down at my buddy's shop this week -- he actually bought the chargers as we had about 5 Prii between us.

Next time you are using them can you do a How to ?
it would be interesting as most of us know someone with an older Prius

Thanks

jfryjfry
jfryjfry SuperDork
11/26/22 9:36 a.m.

All righty. 
The dealer said it would be 5 days to get the rest of the nuts and parts in and they'd call when they did.  I got super busy and after two weeks with no call I just went by.  They had everything but 12 nuts.  
they were confused and said that the nuts were now showing in the warehouse but they didn't have any. 
 

I finally just told them to stop looking and just call me (again) when they arrive.  They said the next morning. 
 

and sure enough, they came the next morning. 
 

but then we went on a 5-day camping trip with the fam and nothing happened.  Until yesterday.  
 

I bolted everything together to make one complete gen2 battery pack with gen4 modules. 
 

(before putting the case cover on:)

 

I used this video to get it out and then just stepped it backwards to reinstall to make sure I didn't miss anything.  

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4YWu-sA3UyU

the only part that was a little tricky is when you install the top black fan vent on the right, start by putting it in the case, making sure it's not caught on anything. Then it will slip onto the fan.  Don't spend 10 minutes trying to do it the other way.  
 

I was a little nervous when I put the plug in, because if I messed up (for example, if I put the order of the modules in backwards) I could have a high voltage problem. But it all went back together without incident and seemed to be good!

I had heard that a new/rebuilt pack sometimes triggers the warning light when started up and can do it for several ignition cycles. They recommend cycling the ignition many times if you have the problem.  
 

also, I know the voltages were all low so I didn't know what kind of problems that could cause.  
 

turns out, none!

this is what I saw when I first turned it on:

 

I was pretty stoked.  But after about 15 seconds, it looked like this:

 

and it went down another bar before I got out of the garage. 
 

super bummed, I remembered that this is what it was doing before - it would show a  decent charge and then drop to nothing and flash the lights and go into limp mode. 
 

I figured I still needed to move it out of the garage so I pulled it out and it never flashed red. So I kept driving around town.  For 10 minutes I drove (in B for max regen) and watched the battery charge go slowly from one bar to two, to three, and to four before I got home. 
 

At this point I figure that the initial reading of a decent charge must have been residual from before and then it updated on the new pack. I forget what they are supposed to be at but it definitely isn't the 7.51v they were at. 
 

later last night I drove another 15 minutes and it is now one block from fully charged. 
 

so I'm going to call this a win!   I will do another post with all of the part numbers and links I would recommend. 

jfryjfry
jfryjfry SuperDork
11/26/22 9:39 a.m.

One little addendum: 

I mentioned a few back how they did not list nuts for the 2016 Prius but they did for the 2005.  But also that they are different and the newer ones look better.   After 15 minutes of fruitless searching I eventually just had them order 2005 nuts.   After all they lasted 180k miles. 
 

well, turns out they have updated the nuts and the listing for the 2005 ARE the same as the 2016. 
 

John Welsh
John Welsh Mod Squad
11/26/22 11:43 p.m.

Yeah! 

Indy - Guy
Indy - Guy UltimaDork
11/27/22 8:33 a.m.

Congratulations,  well done.  yes

jfryjfry
jfryjfry SuperDork
11/27/22 11:10 p.m.

Well, so far pretty good.  I've driven it a few times and, going just off of the instrument animation, the battery is nearly fully charged but I just can't seem to get that last bar to show that it's full. 
 

not a biggie as it's not dropping low but that might be related to another issue: the ice (gas engine) doesn't shut off much.  When I come to a stop but it doesn't go on electric for very far or under much throttle before kicking on.  
 

Ugh. 
 

I'll keep playing with it and see if anything changes. 
 

In the meantime, here are the part numbers and pics I got if anyone is interested:

 

the two connectors on one side of the modules that tie them together and the single one on the other side that has wires that can get corroded and give false errors:

82670-47040

82670-47070

82670-47080

 

the nuts (you need 56):

G9291-47011

 

Last, the battery pack   This is the NiMh from a gen4 (2016 in this case)  

G9280-47200

Indy - Guy
Indy - Guy UltimaDork
1/12/23 5:14 p.m.

In reply to jfryjfry :

Thanks for the additional info. 

 

How's the battery holding up?  I assume it's doing well, based on the audio upgrade you posted in another thread.

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