1 2
Byrneon27
Byrneon27 Reader
4/27/22 10:21 a.m.

Man what a way to find out your friend died and apparently a long time ago... 

 

JJ is/was good people he started Racefab not long after the Shelby Can-Am program finally collapsed a story he told often was his last day at Shelby was one of his few meaningful conversations with Carroll, he chose to outline the deliberate engineering failings with the Can-AM on his way out the door, he still was trying to make the car better. 

 

I can't say I know the family (I do have a personal e-mail address and possibly phone number but they were both JJ's) 

 

My life's work of a race shop didn't survive the last couple years, I'm not saying to give your car up, I'm not saying you shouldn't be upset or contacting a lawyer definitely take care of yourself. It's extremely difficult if not impossible to "do the right thing" when a business of this nature is upended for whatever reason. Contact a lawyer, if you can't/don't want to send a registered letter stating your intentions to collect the car and ask for an invoice for the work completed to this point (not suggesting anyone pays but it's a non confrontational way to get them to admit they have the property and find out where the deposit went) very very common in this business to collect as much as 50% up front for these types of projects and for them to run massively over the estimated time. 

 

FWIW it has more or less ruined me (north of $50,000 that I as a normal working class person have had to go out and earn) the people who showed a little compassion got treated a lot better than the people who threatened me. Be cordial, the amount of people who get into this business with the intent of defrauding or wronging people is fairly small, the amount of good fabricators who are also good business people is even smaller 

eastsideTim
eastsideTim PowerDork
4/27/22 10:37 a.m.

In reply to aircooled :

PM'd you some info that might be useful, but might be something you've already found.

ian sane
ian sane Dork
4/27/22 10:54 a.m.

https://www.texasonlinerecords.com/tax/detail.xhtml?id=Z018434

Looks like the county assessor says Joel and Martha Jackson own the property.

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter)
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
4/27/22 11:05 a.m.

You might just go knock on the door and ask for the car back. Be very diplomatic about it and be ready to leave in a hurry if things get out of hand.

That approach seems to work for most of the investigators I hire for work.

Tom1200
Tom1200 UltraDork
4/27/22 11:05 a.m.

In reply to ian sane :

I use various county assessors when researching suppliers at work; it's a very good resource.

calteg
calteg SuperDork
4/27/22 11:20 a.m.

Looks like taxes haven't been paid on the Fireman's Lane property since the father died. Did a similar search for the son's name and nothing comes up, at least in Cherokee County.  There is a P.O. box listed that might be a lead...

 

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
4/27/22 12:00 p.m.
Byrneon27 said:

Man what a way to find out your friend died and apparently a long time ago... 

I certainly don't want to, and don't think there is any reason to disparage the father.  He seemed like a very skilled stand up guy.

My friend did contact a lawyer, and the basic conclusion that he came to is that he will spend a lot of money and likely get nowhere.  One of the primary issues is proving ownership of the car because both the VIN and the secret VIN (in the front wheel well of a late Corvair) have been cut out.

I do think there is a possibility of just knocking on the door could result in something, especially since at this point he only wants the shell and the work done (and the parts he sent him) back.  The primary issue with that is he is in CA, so it's not an easy trip for something that might result in nothing (e.g. no answer).  Maybe hire a PI or something to go do the knocking might be a good start.

The unpaid property tax is concerning.  It's honestly way better if the business is up an running and making money.  If they are broke and desperate, things could go sideways quickly.

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
4/27/22 12:04 p.m.
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:

You might just go knock on the door and ask for the car back. Be very diplomatic about it and be ready to leave in a hurry if things get out of hand.

That approach seems to work for most of the investigators I hire for work.

I know you are in the state.  Are there any particular semi-local investigators that you could recommend for such things?

Byrneon27
Byrneon27 Reader
4/27/22 1:22 p.m.
aircooled said:
Byrneon27 said:

Man what a way to find out your friend died and apparently a long time ago... 

I certainly don't want to, and don't think there is any reason to disparage the father.  He seemed like a very skilled stand up guy.

My friend did contact a lawyer, and the basic conclusion that he came to is that he will spend a lot of money and likely get nowhere.  One of the primary issues is proving ownership of the car because both the VIN and the secret VIN (in the front wheel well of a late Corvair) have been cut out.

I do think there is a possibility of just knocking on the door could result in something, especially since at this point he only wants the shell and the work done (and the parts he sent him) back.  The primary issue with that is he is in CA, so it's not an easy trip for something that might result in nothing (e.g. no answer).  Maybe hire a PI or something to go do the knocking might be a good start.

The unpaid property tax is concerning.  It's honestly way better if the business is up an running and making money.  If they are broke and desperate, things could go sideways quickly.

Certainly didn't read as though you were I was just genuinely shocked. 

Hiring a PI or similar is probably reasonable. If what the evidence suggests is true everybody there is struggling financially,  with the loss of a loved one, and to live up to their legacy/personal expectations. I'd imagine asking for your stuff back in no harm no foul sorry for your loss type of way gets you further than having somebody go snooping. Sue afterwords for deposit if you like. 

 

Also tube frame Corvairs are a thing? This thread has thrown me down a rabbit hole I did not know I need to explore 

759NRNG
759NRNG UberDork
4/27/22 7:07 p.m.

Where exactly are y'all (Irish44, Snow dawg) talking about location wise??? I live not to far from the 8307 Bauman address when I'm home which I'm not at the moment.  At the 8307 location there are some interesting biddnesses that one could play the PI question game perhaps. Physically walking to the front door at 150 Firemans lane in Rusk is not on my bucketlist to do things when in "boogerholler". cheeky  

irish44j (Forum Supporter)
irish44j (Forum Supporter) MegaDork
4/27/22 7:19 p.m.
759NRNG said:

Where exactly are y'all (Irish44, Snow dawg) talking about location wise??? I live not to far from the 8307 Bauman address when I'm home which I'm not at the moment.  At the 8307 location there are some interesting biddnesses that one could play the PI question game perhaps. Physically walking to the front door at 150 Firemans lane in Rusk is not on my bucketlist to do things when in "boogerholler". cheeky  

I basically just throwing out any information that may be relevant that I can find. I have no idea what the actual correct course of action is.

Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter)
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) SuperDork
4/27/22 7:49 p.m.
aircooled said:
Snowdoggie (Forum Supporter) said:

You might just go knock on the door and ask for the car back. Be very diplomatic about it and be ready to leave in a hurry if things get out of hand.

That approach seems to work for most of the investigators I hire for work.

I know you are in the state.  Are there any particular semi-local investigators that you could recommend for such things?

You could call Elite Protection and Investigations or Hairford Investigations in Tyler. There are several others in Tyler and these guys are all licensed by the state. What you want is a door knock. Somebody will drive out there, knock on the door and politely try to find out what is going on. You aren't hiring a collection agency, you just want information. They might even negotiate to get the car back if that is what you want. They will probably charge about $90 to $100 an hour plus mileage, but I have to admit it has been a few years since I have used anybody out there. They will give you a report if you want to later provide it to a lawyer and go that route.

They are cheaper than lawyers so it might be worth a shot.

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
4/28/22 12:03 p.m.

OK, thanks for that and I will pass that on.

I will certainty post up any updates or new news on this.

And as a sort of post note to the original owner of RaceFab:  One way to look at this that he was so skilled at what he did it was (apparently) essentially impossible for his son(s) to live up to his skills and standards.

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
4/28/22 1:48 p.m.

Not an update, but I did get a copy of the last pictures sent of the progress on the car.  By the wall, it looks like that same building, and clearly there is another Corvair there also (pretty sure it's not the one pictured on the previous page).  Obviously lots of work, at least started, there, at that time.

I am curious what those hoops on the table are.  Maybe for driveshafts to pass through.  It was supposed to be a mid-engined V8 setup BTW.

There is not evidence that a frame is actually being built yet and those part could easily be for the other Corvair.

He also noted that is is going to contact those investigators and see what results from that, so very good tip!

aircooled
aircooled MegaDork
4/28/22 2:23 p.m.

Also of note.  He sent the car to them in October of 2016.

So... seems likely this is a case of the son(s) not being able to follow what the dad did (died in 2018).

1 2
Our Preferred Partners
YvaL6VU8H2kAXX6OTyb55p9vEd5fB9VEqg6WtDybJQhlTwgmFYvTogRJJVX5lJKw