roadmaster wagon vs P71

LT1 roadmaster wagon vs 03+ P71

This is inspired by the "big comfy car" thread. I've been driving nothing but small hondas, mazdas, and toyotas for the last 12 years. I wan't something big and cushy that can tow and haul tons of stuff. So here is my initial pros and cons list for each car.

Roadmaster estate pros: I LOVE how it looks. Everything about it is just hilarious 90's GM, The wagon is a huge plus for me, I really want a wagon, huge towing capacity with the tow pack, from what I've seen locally the roadmaster is going to be cheaper to purchase, vinyl wood paneling, more power than the P71

cons: old, I guess they are fairly rust prone so finding a rust free example could be difficult, terrible headlight performance, 4l60e is kind of weak

P71 pros: newer, parts are probably easier to find, handles better? (I don't really know, I've never driven either car), easier to find a nice example, probably has stronger transmission

cons: not nearly as cool, not a wagon, less power, looks completely boring

What do you guys think? I'm leaning heavily to the roadmaster but I'm not very familiar with either car. The roadmaster just does something for me but if its garbage compared to the P71 then I'll go with that. I've never driven either car so I'd like some input about how each car drives/handles/brakes/etc. any comments are welcome, thanks!

Well i found a 91 Roadmaster wagon for 1500 with a 305. That leaves a lot to spend for upgrades.

I think you pretty much already hot it figured out. The only real downside to the roadie is they are 20 years old now where-as a P71 is likely to only be 10 years old.

That's a significant age difference, but I'd still go for the wagon if you want to haul stuff. They are cavernous! Fold all rear seats down and you can fit 4x8 drywall and plywood in it and still close the gate.

In their day, b-bodies were equal workhorses to their Panther brethren. As cheap as they are, I'd hold out for a clean LT1 car rather than the early TBI models, but my '91 olds CC wagon still did just fine. Add Bilsteins! Front end rebuild kits are cheap.

I still miss mine. Only downside, my wife HATED it.

Solved

http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2011/02/09/hemmings-find-of-the-day-1997-ford-crown-victoria-station-wagon/?refer=news

Seriously though the late P71 is way better handling car, I have had several of each.

provided you find the right example, i don't think either one would disappoint.

I've had and loved both, but I have had five B-bodies and only one Crown Vic. A Roadmaster with the LT1 will be slightly faster stock. Roadmaster is comfier for rear seat passengers. Wagon vs sedan is all up to you. I've had both and lean more to the sedan.

I started looking for another cop car and I bought a $900 Mercedes S-Class instead. And a month later, an $800 E-Class.

But I love big boats, and I cannot lie. You'll have fun with either.

Stock for stock, a p71 police suspension panther will handle about 8 worlds better than a stock suspension gm wagon.

Now, if you get 9c1 / ss suspension under a wagon, id still bet the panther will handle a little better, but there wont be 8 worlds of difference.

And if you go aftermarket all bets are off. Anything is possible with enough effort.

I have to agree that there is just something about the 90s b-body wagons that a panther cant touch and never will. If thats important to you then there is no contest.. get the wagon.

aussiesmg wrote: Solved http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2011/02/09/hemmings-find-of-the-day-1997-ford-crown-victoria-station-wagon/?refer=news Seriously though the late P71 is way better handling car, I have had several of each.

For me, the nod goes to the B-body. Cubes = streetable torque. No way a 281 ci engine is happy moving a 2-ton car. I've had both.

If you're going stock for stock, the P71 is a bit nicer car. If you're going to modify, the B-body wins hands down. For the $4000 you'll save buying the cool car, put $1000 of that back into suspension and the small-engined P71 looks very quaint in your rear-view mirror.

get the B body wagon.. .the chassis goes back to the 73 A bodies and are brutally simple to work on and parts are cheap. the LT1 is a small block with a funny looking water pump with the distributor hidden behind it.. the trans can be upgraded with cheap factory parts from trucks built as recently as a few years ago.

and they are HUGE- you can shove tons of dead bodies in one if you should ever need to do so- and they get better gas mileage than they really have any business getting.

I have had several B body wagons Loved them get about 20+/- in combined driving. Won't believe the waves and comments you get on a totally stock car.

aussiesmg wrote: Solved http://blog.hemmings.com/index.php/2011/02/09/hemmings-find-of-the-day-1997-ford-crown-victoria-station-wagon/?refer=news Seriously though the late P71 is way better handling car, I have had several of each.

looks like a crown vic with a tumor on the back of it. Or perhaps a hunchback.

I like my P71, and I have a bit of seat time in Caprice wagons from my time working for a transit authority. Neither are rockets in a straight line, though they're not bad. If going for the GM product, definitely hold out for an LT1 model. The Caprice handled like a total boat, literally a flying couch. The P71, sure, it weighs two tons, but handling is good considering its weight.

I can see the appeal of an LT1 wagon, and throw a 9C1 suspension under it to make it handle decently like a P71. Chevy did sell a law enforcement version of the Caprice wagon, BUT, it does NOT have the bigger engine OR the stiffer suspension of the 9C1 sedan. Maybe they figured that the wagons wouldn't get driven as hard, because they're wagons. Why, I don't know.

Don't forget the other pro of a P71: EVERYONE gets out of your way.

White_and_Nerdy wrote: I like my P71, and I have a bit of seat time in Caprice wagons from my time working for a transit authority. Neither are rockets in a straight line, though they're not bad. If going for the GM product, definitely hold out for an LT1 model. The Caprice handled like a total boat, literally a flying couch. The P71, sure, it weighs two tons, but handling is good considering its weight. I can see the appeal of an LT1 wagon, and throw a 9C1 suspension under it to make it handle decently like a P71. Chevy did sell a law enforcement version of the Caprice wagon, BUT, it does NOT have the bigger engine OR the stiffer suspension of the 9C1 sedan. Maybe they figured that the wagons wouldn't get driven as hard, because they're wagons. Why, I don't know. Don't forget the other pro of a P71: EVERYONE gets out of your way.

just feel the need to make a minor correction to this- not every 94-96 Caprice 9C1 had the LT1 or the heavy duty 8.5" rear axle... most of them came with the little 4.3 L99 "baby LT1" and a 7.5 rear- you just don't need as much power and the resulting higher fuel costs for a car that's going to be idling around town most of the time. if you don't have the sticker with all the option codes handy, look for tiny single exhaust and the smaller rear axle when scoping out 9C1's to see what you are looking at.

every wagon in those years had the LT1 and 8.5 rear, but usually with 2.56 gears instead of the 3.08 in the sedans. they also had the 9C1 sway bars (which were probably originally designed for the wagons), but not the tight ratio steering box.. and you're gonna need stiffer springs than the 9C1 had to get the heavier wagon to handle.. but luckily the 9C1 steering box is a bolt in and aftermarket springs are cheap and easy to swap.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eV2qYbxgCC0

curtis73 wrote: For me, the nod goes to the B-body. Cubes = streetable torque. No way a 281 ci engine is happy moving a 2-ton car. I've had both.

they're both slow.

is there much support for the LT1 anymore? i know pretty much everybody and their mom makes performance parts for ford's 2-valve mod-motor.

I can't find the reference right now, but I read somewhere that Buick engineers sneaked the good stuff into the Roadmaster by calling it the "trailering package." What that entailed, exactly, I don't know, but probably somebody on here does. It gives you something to look for when giving a car the once-over, though.

I'm a Ford guy and I'd rather have the LT1 in a big car than the 2v 4.6 used in the Panthers. I had an L98 Roadmaster wagon for a couple months and I'd love to have another one (only one that wasn't in a massive wreck and will actually pass emissions inspection).

It's amazing how good of a freeway car that was. The difference between cruising at 70, 80, or 90 mph was about a 1/4 inch of throttle; it felt no different in the car.

novaderrik wrote: just feel the need to make a minor correction to this- not every 94-96 Caprice 9C1 had the LT1 or the heavy duty 8.5" rear axle... most of them came with the little 4.3 L99 "baby LT1" and a 7.5 rear- you just don't need as much power and the resulting higher fuel costs for a car that's going to be idling around town most of the time. if you don't have the sticker with all the option codes handy, look for tiny single exhaust and the smaller rear axle when scoping out 9C1's to see what you are looking at. every wagon in those years had the LT1 and 8.5 rear, but usually with 2.56 gears instead of the 3.08 in the sedans. they also had the 9C1 sway bars (which were probably originally designed for the wagons), but not the tight ratio steering box.. and you're gonna need stiffer springs than the 9C1 had to get the heavier wagon to handle.. but luckily the 9C1 steering box is a bolt in and aftermarket springs are cheap and easy to swap.

Aha - thanks for the corrections. I was going from just a little research I did when a friend got a police package Caprice wagon. I didn't go in depth enough to learn the gritty details, and what you said makes sense.

Jax fl CL

Little on the pricey side, but if the mileage isn't a misprint. It may be worth a look

belteshazzar wrote:

curtis73 wrote: For me, the nod goes to the B-body. Cubes = streetable torque. No way a 281 ci engine is happy moving a 2-ton car. I've had both.

is there much support for the LT1 anymore? i know pretty much everybody and their mom makes performance parts for ford's 2-valve mod-motor.

Ridiculously massive support. I would say probably 20 times the support of the Romeo. Keep in mind that it is basically a 1-piece rear SBC on the bottom with specific heads/water passages. There are almost as many aftermarket heads for LT1s as their are SBCs since much of the differences can be accounted for during machining.

I can only think of three or four aftermarket heads for the 4.6L and they cost about as much as an entire crate LT1.

novaderrik wrote: just feel the need to make a minor correction to this- not every 94-96 Caprice 9C1 had the LT1 or the heavy duty 8.5" rear axle... most of them came with the little 4.3 L99 "baby LT1" and a 7.5 rear- you just don't need as much power and the resulting higher fuel costs for a car that's going to be idling around town most of the time. if you don't have the sticker with all the option codes handy, look for tiny single exhaust and the smaller rear axle when scoping out 9C1's to see what you are looking at. every wagon in those years had the LT1 and 8.5 rear, but usually with 2.56 gears instead of the 3.08 in the sedans. they also had the 9C1 sway bars (which were probably originally designed for the wagons), but not the tight ratio steering box.. and you're gonna need stiffer springs than the 9C1 had to get the heavier wagon to handle.. but luckily the 9C1 steering box is a bolt in and aftermarket springs are cheap and easy to swap.

Agreed with all of the above, but I have seen wagons with the L99. I believe it was used in some 94-95, but they ran out of them in 96, so mid 96-97 started all getting LT1s. That was my interpretation from John Moss.

My 96 SS was pretty much a boat. I spent $14 plus shipping for the missing body bushings (google it), a few hundred on Bilsteins, $189 for drop springs, and (when the stockers were bald) I bought some 285/40-17 Toyos. Suffice it to say, the car WAY outhandled my seats and my talent. I do need to fine tune it with a mixture of Herb Adams rear bar and a Hotchkis front bar. I cycled through poly bushings (just don't) and new higher-durometer rubber bushings (just DO) and even some solid bushings (which were nice but harsh).

Right now it has a Torsen-type posi with 4.10s in preparation for the T56 swap.

Comparing a P71 with a B-body is like arguing Camaro vs. Mustang. You'll get very argumentative possibilities. IMHO, YMMV, a cheap B-body with $500 in suspension mods will outhandle and out ride a P71 while still costing thousands less, and you still get the benefit of much greater engine potential/torque/displacement. Add in the simplicity of the SBC2 (LT1) and its a no-brainer for me. Keep in mind I've owned both and modded both. I'm a B-body guy.

Spinout007 wrote: Jax fl CL Little on the pricey side, but if the mileage isn't a misprint. It may be worth a look

woah....

I wonder why it hasn't sold yet. I would love to have it. It's even the color I want.

thanks to everyone for the great input. I think the b-body is what I will go for.